Plans filed for Brookhaven Marta Redevelopment (Atlanta, Lenox: 2014, employment, transfer to)

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

You're obviously missing the point and fighting a battle where your side already waived its surrender flag long ago.

MARTA is not convenient. Calling it SMARTA didn't cure that.

So... an agency actively adding homes, shops, and civic and work places literally surrounding a station, making accessing all of it from the system, as well as accessing tons of stuff elsewhere from the system, more convenient, is wrong for doing so.

Yet you say that the system is not convenient, and that's why it's bad.

You won't let the system add convenience, but criticize inconvenience.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

Didn't your "side" lose? Marta is set to undergo its largest expansion in history, streetcars are set to be built to create a new "perimeter around Atlanta, ITB (in the beltline). Bike lanes are taking over lanes in many streets. And no matter how much stink some will make in Brookhaven and near other stations MARTA is set to expand its offering of transit orient developments around its stations.

It shouldn't even be a question of taking sides. The fact that people are upset that MARTA trying to make the best possible developmental use of its under-utilized property (while filling a big gaping hold in the middle of Brookhaven) is absolutely ridiculous.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Gulch

It shouldn't even be a question of taking sides. The fact that people are upset that MARTA trying to make the best possible developmental use of its under-utilized property (while filling a big gaping hold in the middle of Brookhaven) is absolutely ridiculous.

It really shouldn't be. A useful, healthy transportation system combines and layers many, many types of transportation.

Sidewalks, alleys, neighborhood roads, arterials, highways, interstates, pedestrian boulevards, bike boulevards, bike lanes, bike tracks, multi-use trails, cars, community circulators, buses, Arterial Rapid Transit, Bus Rapid Transit, streetcars, Light-Rail Transit, Heavy-Rail Transit, Commuter Rail, Intercity Rail, Interstate Rail, et al et nausium.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Gulch

It shouldn't even be a question of taking sides. The fact that people are upset that MARTA trying to make the best possible developmental use of its under-utilized property (while filling a big gaping hold in the middle of Brookhaven) is absolutely ridiculous.

You can be in favor of MARTA making good use of its property but not be in favor of more apartments.

[ATL Golfer]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Seriously? "Your side?" Give me a break. For someone that's so anti-MARTA, you probably should've moved to Cobb County.

Maybe not for you, but that doesn't mean you speak for everyone. For instance, MARTA was very convenient to me when I lived in [gasp] Brookhaven.

I don't have a problem with MARTA. Sides being those that think its convenient and those that think it is a waste of time. The later is clearly the more popular belief.

It shouldn't even be a question of taking sides. The fact that people are upset that MARTA trying to make the best possible developmental use of its under-utilized property (while filling a big gaping hold in the middle of Brookhaven) is absolutely ridiculous.

By filling it with apartments. Again, as with the others, I'm sure you'd be real thrilled about 1000 apartment units coming online within a mile of your home and where you travel every day. Easy there armchair QB. Sounds f'in awesome!! Hold on, one sec, I'm going to run out and do a cartwheel in my front yard.

So... an agency actively adding homes, shops, and civic and work places literally surrounding a station, making accessing all of it from the system, as well as accessing tons of stuff elsewhere from the system, more convenient, is wrong for doing so.

Yet you say that the system is not convenient, and that's why it's bad.

You won't let the system add convenience, but criticize inconvenience.

I'm not sure where I want to respond to first. Placing demand directly on top of MARTA doesn't make it more convenient. Unless we're talking about people who reside/work within a 100yds of MARTA. Running more trains, faster times btwn stations, not shutting down or waiting on a train mid-ride (I ride sparingly and encounter often), etc etc. That is what makes it more convenient, not developing on top of it. That is just be opportunistic at the expense of the neighborhood.

It really shouldn't be. A useful, healthy transportation system combines and layers many, many types of transportation.

Sidewalks, alleys, neighborhood roads, arterials, highways, interstates, pedestrian boulevards, bike boulevards, bike lanes, bike tracks, multi-use trails, cars, community circulators, buses, Arterial Rapid Transit, Bus Rapid Transit, streetcars, Light-Rail Transit, Heavy-Rail Transit, Commuter Rail, Intercity Rail, Interstate Rail, et al et nausium.

City did a great job there. I have as much confidence in them as I do in MARTA pulling this off intelligently.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

That's not really accurate. Time spent waiting at a platform or for a transfer can influence the perception of how much time is spent on one commute versus another. 5 minutes of driving feels very different than 5 minutes of standing around waiting.

It also is a similar phenomenon of whether to race as fast as one can between stop and go traffic points rather than just coasting along at a slower speed, but closer to the actual average speed. I have people insist to me it is faster to speed as quickly to the next stop in traffic than to keep a consistent speed without needing to brake. I've found there is no difference, though aggressively driving in traffic leads to more stress and headache.

I'd also add that there are other benefits when using Public transit. One get all the commute time back and can use it to check their email, do online errands on their laptop or phone like paying bills, remain informed with the news, etc. whereas it is illegal to do those things as a driver.

I take it you don't drive. People do all those things while driving now!!!

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Gulch

It shouldn't even be a question of taking sides. The fact that people are upset that MARTA trying to make the best possible developmental use of its under-utilized property (while filling a big gaping hold in the middle of Brookhaven) is absolutely ridiculous.

So people shouldn't care if a developer (MARTA in this case) makes life worse (in their opinion) in their neighborhood? That's a ridiculous concept?

I see pro transit people making the same argument on the other side all the time with regard to roads.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

That's not really accurate. Time spent waiting at a platform or for a transfer can influence the perception of how much time is spent on one commute versus another. 5 minutes of driving feels very different than 5 minutes of standing around waiting.

It also is a similar phenomenon of whether to race as fast as one can between stop and go traffic points rather than just coasting along at a slower speed, but closer to the actual average speed. I have people insist to me it is faster to speed as quickly to the next stop in traffic than to keep a consistent speed without needing to brake. I've found there is no difference, though aggressively driving in traffic leads to more stress and headache.

I'd also add that there are other benefits when using Public transit. One get all the commute time back and can use it to check their email, do online errands on their laptop or phone like paying bills, remain informed with the news, etc. whereas it is illegal to do those things as a driver.

While there is some truth in what you say, people know what time they leave the house and what time they get to their desk (or cube or whatever).

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

I don't have a problem with MARTA. Sides being those that think its convenient and those that think it is a waste of time. The later is clearly the more popular belief.

You have a source for the bolded text or are you simply extrapolating this belief onto all car commuters? Most of whom don't even have the option of using MARTA.

By filling it with apartments. Again, as with the others, I'm sure you'd be real thrilled about 1000 apartment units coming online within a mile of your home and where you travel every day. Easy there armchair QB. Sounds f'in awesome!! Hold on, one sec, I'm going to run out and do a cartwheel in my front yard.

There actually happens to be about triple that number of apartments coming online within a mile of my home and I have no problem with it whatsoever.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by ATL Golfer

I'm not sure where I want to respond to first. Placing demand directly on top of MARTA doesn't make it more convenient. Unless we're talking about people who reside/work within a 100yds of MARTA. Running more trains, faster times btwn stations, not shutting down or waiting on a train mid-ride (I ride sparingly and encounter often), etc etc. That is what makes it more convenient, not developing on top of it. That is just be opportunistic at the expense of the neighborhood.

We are talking about people who reside/work within a quarter mile (a hundred yards is far short of the generally accepted capture distance of a transit station/stop) of a MARTA station, quite literally. Adding places to go, and adding places to live near transit is making it more convienient as a method of moving around.

Adding all that other stuff, which is already in the works anyway, goes hand in hand.

City did a great job there. I have as much confidence in them as I do in MARTA pulling this off intelligently.

Oh please. MARTA's leadership has been proving itself competent for the past 4 years now, and there's nothing to indicate that they won't be at this.