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I think that racism and classism are two different things. Most people are likely classist, although minority poor get the unfortunate brunt of the blame. I don't want to live next to poor white trash any more than a poor person of any color or culture who brings the potential of increased crime, drugs or rundown communities. That being said, I grew up in a solid middle class/upper middle class area, and drugs are everywhere, but the increase of violent crime, theft and decreased home values/school districts is exponentially greater in lower socioeconomic areas.
I personally love diversity and being from NY, I really do want my children to grow up with people from all backgrounds and cultures, as I find homogenous areas quite boring. I think the bigger question is: how do we work to increase the socioeconomic class of blacks and other races and ethnicities and to enable them have a better quality of life? That is a much more complex issue that just throwing money at does not solve, but I personally do feel that it requires the majority of people in our society to really want that and to make an effort. Otherwise we remain in our bubbles and our segregated communities, and we never truly assimilate with one another. Atlanta has been growing and more people want to move here, particularly those escaping the cost of living in the north. I don't think that can be to blame for the changing demographics, but hopefully the city can grow without completely changing it's culture or becoming too similar to cities up north.
Funny you say that when NYC has many homogeneous areas that are anything but boring.
I'm ALL for racially diverse neighborhoods, I think people of varying backgrounds should live together to breakdown the wall of differences so we could have a less hateful world. It's just sad that you have to have white americans move into a neighborhood for investment in infrastructure, retail etc. to follow.
The city has begged for investment in these poorer majority black neighborhoods forever in the form of tax incentives, no one would bite but as soon as whites started moving in you see businesses moving in and taking advantage of city and state incentives. I know some are saying but it's not about race but money, but that's not a strong argument in my opinion. Not to say money isn't a factor but it's not the overriding factor as some make it out to be. There are areas in the Atlanta metro, more recently the Cascade Camp creek area that have been wealthy enclaves for African americans for decades but not until recently have seen investment in the form of Camp Creek Marketplace. I know from a few friends who are natives that live south of cascade an other that lives off of camp creek parkway that they saw a sprinkling of whites in 2002-2003 moving in the area. Don't know if they were pilots, frequent business travelers, Woodward parents etc, the point was they were slowly moving in, fast forward 4-5 years you get Camp Creek Marketplace. CCM should have been built before a single white resident moved in.
Another example that I personally know of where investment dollars follow whites into well-established upper class majority black areas happened in the southern Dallas,TX burbs of DeSoto and Cedar Hill. The area has nice homes, rolling hills, especially in Cedar Hill, it would remind you of parts of Atlanta. Black judges, retired athletes, business owners, state senators, syndicated radio hosts doctors etc have all called the area home for several decades. While the area had nice homes, they were in a bubble, isolated. If you wanted to go shopping or have access to the even middle of the road retail chains you would have to travel over to Arlington(historically lower to middle/ middle class white area) or up to Dallas, much like you had here in Atlanta before CCM or Stonecrest Mall on the east side of the metro. Wasn't until more whites started moving into DeSoto and Cedar Hill in the mid to late 90's that things started to change and you have all the investment around 67 and Beltline Rd, Uptown Village at Cedar Hill etc.
The same McMansions in the cascade area and parts of Dallas were nice well appointed home before whites moved in but all of a sudden the home is worth more because more whites are in the neighborhood? that's not right. I'm all for higher home values which equals higher property taxes, which means more money for fire and police departments EMS, roads and most importantly schools but that should come regardless of who moves in next door.
Whether it's gentrification or any issue we all deal with it just seems a higher value is placed on whites in society. If there is an issue that has plagued those in the black community or any other ethnic group for a long time the problem really won't get the attention it deserves until it affects whites.
I'm all for investment but it's a shame it takes whites moving in to get it. Even if you take the excuse of economics out of the equation per my examples in wealthier black enclaves here and in Dallas, development still didn't come until whites began to move in which is really telling. That's the real point, that this persistent unconscious bias that says no matter the income level you aren't of the same value as this other group.
I'm ALL for racially diverse neighborhoods, I think people of varying backgrounds should live together to breakdown the wall of differences so we could have a less hateful world. It's just sad that you have to have white americans move into a neighborhood for investment in infrastructure, retail etc. to follow.
The city has begged for investment in these poorer majority black neighborhoods forever in the form of tax incentives, no one would bite but as soon as whites started moving in you see businesses moving in and taking advantage of city and state incentives. I know some are saying but it's not about race but money, but that's not a strong argument in my opinion. Not to say money isn't a factor but it's not the overriding factor as some make it out to be. There are areas in the Atlanta metro, more recently the Cascade Camp creek area that have been wealthy enclaves for African americans for decades but not until recently have seen investment in the form of Camp Creek Marketplace. I know from a few friends who are natives that live south of cascade an other that lives off of camp creek parkway that they saw a sprinkling of whites in 2002-2003 moving in the area. Don't know if they were pilots, frequent business travelers, Woodward parents etc, the point was they were slowly moving in, fast forward 4-5 years you get Camp Creek Marketplace. CCM should have been built before a single white resident moved in.
Another example that I personally know of where investment dollars follow whites into well-established upper class majority black areas happened in the southern Dallas,TX burbs of DeSoto and Cedar Hill. The area has nice homes, rolling hills, especially in Cedar Hill, it would remind you of parts of Atlanta. Black judges, retired athletes, business owners, state senators, syndicated radio hosts doctors etc have all called the area home for several decades. While the area had nice homes, they were in a bubble, isolated. If you wanted to go shopping or have access to the even middle of the road retail chains you would have to travel over to Arlington(historically lower to middle/ middle class white area) or up to Dallas, much like you had here in Atlanta before CCM or Stonecrest Mall on the east side of the metro. Wasn't until more whites started moving into DeSoto and Cedar Hill in the mid to late 90's that things started to change and you have all the investment around 67 and Beltline Rd, Uptown Village at Cedar Hill etc.
The same McMansions in the cascade area and parts of Dallas were nice well appointed home before whites moved in but all of a sudden the home is worth more because more whites are in the neighborhood? that's not right. I'm all for higher home values which equals higher property taxes, which means more money for fire and police departments EMS, roads and most importantly schools but that should come regardless of who moves in next door.
Whether it's gentrification or any issue we all deal with it just seems a higher value is placed on whites in society. If there is an issue that has plagued those in the black community or any other ethnic group for a long time the problem really won't get the attention it deserves until it affects whites.
I'm all for investment but it's a shame it takes whites moving in to get it. Even if you take the excuse of economics out of the equation per my examples in wealthier black enclaves here and in Dallas, development still didn't come until whites began to move in which is really telling. That's the real point, that this persistent unconscious bias that says no matter the income level you aren't of the same value as this other group.
Right, I've mentioned this before.
If it's all about money then why doesn't this development happen to the sane level in middle and upper class black areas?
Likewise Go take a look at Detroit (12% white, 82% black) and tell me if that's the route you'd like Atlanta to follow. The white flight reversal of Atlanta is one of the best things that could ever happen to it, and many black people living here are receiving the benefits of that either by staying in the city and enjoying a massive increase in amenities and public infrastructure, or by selling their homes for four or five times what it was worth 10 years ago and cashing out to move elsewhere.
Please explain how what happened to Detroit has anything to do with Atlanta. And I've heard that "Atlanta will turn into Detroit" crap damn near my whole life. And I can't help but think that the comparison in itself is racist, 2 cities that are perceived as being Black so they must be the same right? At best it's a lazy comparison. Detroit was a one industry town that went down when that industry started to change. Throw in a few race riots, some corrupt unions and the mafia bringing heroin over the border from Canada and the end result is what you see now. The 2 cities share no comparisons on any level. The history of Atlanta and Detroit couldn't be more different.
Class and race are tied together, most black people can be priced out of areas being gentrificatied by whites because way more white people are wealthier than black people, black people can never price white people out of a neighborhood. Once an area hits a certain price point very few black people can afford to move in.
I'm ALL for racially diverse neighborhoods, I think people of varying backgrounds should live together to breakdown the wall of differences so we could have a less hateful world. It's just sad that you have to have white americans move into a neighborhood for investment in infrastructure, retail etc. to follow.
The city has begged for investment in these poorer majority black neighborhoods forever in the form of tax incentives, no one would bite but as soon as whites started moving in you see businesses moving in and taking advantage of city and state incentives. I know some are saying but it's not about race but money, but that's not a strong argument in my opinion. Not to say money isn't a factor but it's not the overriding factor as some make it out to be. There are areas in the Atlanta metro, more recently the Cascade Camp creek area that have been wealthy enclaves for African americans for decades but not until recently have seen investment in the form of Camp Creek Marketplace. I know from a few friends who are natives that live south of cascade an other that lives off of camp creek parkway that they saw a sprinkling of whites in 2002-2003 moving in the area. Don't know if they were pilots, frequent business travelers, Woodward parents etc, the point was they were slowly moving in, fast forward 4-5 years you get Camp Creek Marketplace. CCM should have been built before a single white resident moved in.
Another example that I personally know of where investment dollars follow whites into well-established upper class majority black areas happened in the southern Dallas,TX burbs of DeSoto and Cedar Hill. The area has nice homes, rolling hills, especially in Cedar Hill, it would remind you of parts of Atlanta. Black judges, retired athletes, business owners, state senators, syndicated radio hosts doctors etc have all called the area home for several decades. While the area had nice homes, they were in a bubble, isolated. If you wanted to go shopping or have access to the even middle of the road retail chains you would have to travel over to Arlington(historically lower to middle/ middle class white area) or up to Dallas, much like you had here in Atlanta before CCM or Stonecrest Mall on the east side of the metro. Wasn't until more whites started moving into DeSoto and Cedar Hill in the mid to late 90's that things started to change and you have all the investment around 67 and Beltline Rd, Uptown Village at Cedar Hill etc.
The same McMansions in the cascade area and parts of Dallas were nice well appointed home before whites moved in but all of a sudden the home is worth more because more whites are in the neighborhood? that's not right. I'm all for higher home values which equals higher property taxes, which means more money for fire and police departments EMS, roads and most importantly schools but that should come regardless of who moves in next door.
Whether it's gentrification or any issue we all deal with it just seems a higher value is placed on whites in society. If there is an issue that has plagued those in the black community or any other ethnic group for a long time the problem really won't get the attention it deserves until it affects whites.
I'm all for investment but it's a shame it takes whites moving in to get it. Even if you take the excuse of economics out of the equation per my examples in wealthier black enclaves here and in Dallas, development still didn't come until whites began to move in which is really telling. That's the real point, that this persistent unconscious bias that says no matter the income level you aren't of the same value as this other group.
Best post I've seen on this forum in a long time. I would give you infinite rep if I could.
Class and race are tied together, most black people can be priced out of areas being gentrificatied by whites because way more white people are wealthier than black people, black people can never price white people out of a neighborhood. Once an area hits a certain price point very few black people can afford to move in.
So what about AA professionals, can they not gentrify an area too?
Seeing as many black professionals live in places like Lithonia, South Fulton, and Clayton and those areas still don't get development so I doubt it.
Those are gentrifying areas, they are greenfield, suburban development areas.
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