Has anyone's opinion on an Outer Perimeter / Outer Bypass changed? (Marietta: bill, transport)

[primaltech]

I wonder if this section where I-75 splits in two was done in order to leave room for an interchange with the outer perimeter:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2303...!1e3?entry=ttu

They should still build a couple of eastbound ramps there, that would directly flow into a widened version of GA-20, instead of traffic from the north having to go down another mile, exit, and double back up the same way.

At least they're planning on building some of what I was talking about:

https://sr20improvements-gdot.hub.arcgis.com/

Sounds like the whole of GA-20 will be widened to at least 4 lanes from I-75 to GA-316. So I guess that's phase one of a sort of northern arc. Non-freeway version of an outer perimeter, that could be further improved later, for travel efficiency.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by bu2

Probably so. But that is really the least needed part of an outer bypass. West, east and south are more needed. North just gets people around from northern suburb to northern suburb.

The west, south, and east walls of I-285 still function pretty well as a city/metro bypass. Especially to the southwest and southeast.

However the north wall hasn't been a bypass for a long time. It goes right through the middle of the metro suburban sprawl.

I don't know where the center of population is for the Atlanta-Sandy Springs metropolitan statistical area, but it's probably somewhere around the Northside Hospital/ Perimeter Mall area.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by rrampage

Yes, the northern suburban part shouldn't exactly be a priority (most people in that area don't have that far of a commute). Yet, I imagine there is a huge push in that area for it, regardless.

And the northern part seems to be the most challenging to build (along with the western part). However, the waste of resources in a given state never shocks, nor surprises me.

That is a good point that the northern part of the Outer Perimeter bypass superhighway (the Northern Arc part of the erstwhile proposed Outer Perimeter route) did indeed turn out to be the most challenging for the State of Georgia to attempt to build during the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc controversy of the late 1990’s and very early 2000’s.

That is also a good point that the western part of the erstwhile proposed Outer Perimeter bypass superhighway was also very challenging to attempt to build because the proposed route of the highway went through the eastern edge of a beloved wilderness area in West Paulding County (the Paulding Forest and Sheffield WMAs/Wildlife Management Areas) and near/through some historic sites in Bartow County, which is a county where there historically has been some very strong local resistance to large-scale road construction projects.

But there actually does not seem to have been much of a broad public push for an Outer Perimeter bypass in Atlanta’s northern suburbs and exurbs or seemingly anywhere else in greater metro Atlanta or greater North Georgia.

If anything, there has been widespread public rejection of the idea of an Outer Perimeter bypass highway, including in Atlanta’s affluent northern suburbs and exurbs where residents have the immense political clout and financial resources to successfully fight and stop road construction they dislike.

The biggest push for the Outer Perimeter highway came from real estate developers who stood to gain from a development-generating outer bypass superhighway being built through the outer suburbs and exurbs of an explosively fast-growing greater Atlanta metropolitan region back in the early 2000’s.

Real estate developers really wanted the Northern Arc of the Outer Perimeter highway to be built because to the north of Atlanta is where the most growth in development and population has occurred and continues to occur in the Atlanta region after World War II.

But particularly after former Governor Roy Barnes and the Georgia Democrats lost the 2002 Gubernatorial Election in large part because of the unpopularity of the Outer Perimeter and Northern Arc highway proposals they were attempting to push through, the Outer Perimeter concept has proved to be so deeply unpopular with much of the metro Atlanta and North Georgia Public to the point that no sane Georgia politician dares to even utter the terms “Outer Perimeter” or “Northern Arc” in public for fear of alienating (and even angering) the powerful suburban and exurban voters that dominate Georgia’s political landscape.

Not only is the Outer Perimeter highway just been challenging to build, but at this point (particularly after being cancelled by then-incoming Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue in early 2003 after running on the issue as a candidate in the 2002 election) the Outer Perimeter highway continues to appear to also be outright impossible to build politically because of how deeply unpopular the proposed highway has been proven to be with the public in the past.

No Georgia governor is going to want to rehash and resurrect a deeply unpopular (and seemingly politically toxic) controversial road construction project that seems to have the ability to totally consume their entire governorship and political legacy.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I wonder if this section where I-75 splits in two was done in order to leave room for an interchange with the outer perimeter:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2303...!1e3?entry=ttu

It very well may have been because that is about the exact area where the Outer Perimeter was proposed to intersect with I-75 northwest of Atlanta.

Originally Posted by primaltech

They should still build a couple of eastbound ramps there, that would directly flow into a widened version of GA-20, instead of traffic from the north having to go down another mile, exit, and double back up the same way.

At least they're planning on building some of what I was talking about:

https://sr20improvements-gdot.hub.arcgis.com/

It looks like they planning on building more than just some of what you were talking about.

It looks like they’re planning on widening GA-20 to a divided 4-lane surface highway the entire way between Interstates 75 and 575 in East Bartow and West Cherokee counties.

Which widening GA-20 between Interstates 75 and 575 makes sense seeing as though the construction of a grade-separated Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter superhighway is and has been a political impossibility since the cancellation of the Outer Perimeter project in 2002 and 2003.

Originally Posted by primaltech

Sounds like the whole of GA-20 will be widened to at least 4 lanes from I-75 to GA-316. So I guess that's phase one of a sort of northern arc. Non-freeway version of an outer perimeter, that could be further improved later, for travel efficiency.

Lol. Any widening of GA-20 that is happening IS the further improvement and seems to be more than was ever expected to happen along that east-west corridor after the cancellation of the Outer Perimeter project more than two decades ago.

The ongoing reconstruction and widening of GA-20 that has been happening for about the last decade or so from PIB in Gwinnett County west to I-75 in Bartow County is far from perfect (particularly with the inability to construct a bypass around Downtown Cumming for through traffic to be able to keep flowing between the widened section of GA-20 in West Forsyth County and the 4+ lane section of GA-20 east of GA-9 in Southeast Forsyth County) but it is better than nothing, which is what many (including myself) seemed to be expecting out of GDOT in the past.

It took GDOT quite awhile but it appears that they have finally gotten around to being able to deliver significant and meaningful improvements to that GA-20 east-west corridor north of Atlanta.

[walker1962]

Originally Posted by cranberrysaus

The DC area actually has completed portions of an outer bypass. The intercounty connector in MD and the Fairfax County parkway in VA both roughly follow what would've been the path of the planned outer beltway.

The parkway is actually an ideal model for upgrading SR 20. It has signaled intersections with most cross roads like SR 20 does now, but has interchanges where it intersects major arterials and freeways.

Good to hear. I think finishing Metro Rail out to Dulless will/is be a huge benefit.

[walker1962]

Originally Posted by MichiganderTexan

They seem content on doing neither which is mind boggling I can't imagine what's going to happen to this place in 30 years, the will be forced to do something eventually or lose all appeal as a metro area.

Kemp has done an excellent job attracting new businesses but he's got a huge blind spot for public mobility. That will be where NC and TN counter-market their states as attractive spots for new or expanded businesses.

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by walker1962

Kemp has done an excellent job attracting new businesses but he's got a huge blind spot for public mobility. That will be where NC and TN counter-market their states as attractive spots for new or expanded businesses.

Not so sure that it's exactly Kemp who is the one who is attracting these businesses. And you're right, there are "blind spots" in certain areas that are anti-business, in practical terms.

One thing is clear, it's important to be adaptable.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by walker1962

Kemp has done an excellent job attracting new businesses but he's got a huge blind spot for public mobility. That will be where NC and TN counter-market their states as attractive spots for new or expanded businesses.

TN State Government is more openly hostile to public transit than Georgia, by far. They passed a law last year practically forbidding light rail in their Metro's.

[rrampage]

Originally Posted by JMatl

TN State Government is more openly hostile to public transit than Georgia, by far. They passed a law last year practically forbidding light rail in their Metro's.

Yes, we seem to have a culture of having to choose the least worst option, it seems. Georgia would be a better choice here.

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by rrampage

Yes, we seem to have a culture of having to choose the least worst option, it seems. Georgia would be a better choice here.

That seems to be the case, especially in politics, but I digress. It's just a relief to know that Georgia is not the worst state in the whole United States with everything.