Is it possible to have an honest discussion about Austin's traffic? (Johnson City: buying, subdivisions)

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by centralaustinite

It will only take a couple of cool billions to do it!

That is true of every effective solution.

We waited too long to fix the problem, now its not going to be cheap or painless.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by austinnerd

You forgot Zip Lines! Heck, you could get from the Austonian to The Domain in no time flat. Plus you could charge by the pound and encourage weight loss!

If it isn't air conditioned, no significant number of people will use it.

Ok I promise I will use the zip line... once.

[orngkat]

So maddening that things like the Circuit of the Americas can be built in a matter of a few years and any talk of mass transit never happens and turns into decades. I imagine the medical center will go up relatively quickly too. I guess there isn't enough money to be made on things like rail.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

Cities larger than Austin have the same or similar traffic problems. Expanding roads does not reduce traffic. The only viable long-term solution is probably congestion pricing.

Expanding roads increases the capacity that the roads can handle. The traffic will increase until the drive times are the same, but it still remains a fact that many more people will be driving on the same roads. In effect "reducing traffic".

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by Eastcoasting

Austin needs trains, commuter trains that run frequently.

Not gondolas, horses, rickshaws, car pool lanes, hang gliders, skateboard or scooter lanes, not moving sidewalks or commuter trebuchets.

Trains.

That'll do it.

Trains are more expensive than roads. expanding mopac to 10 lanes would enable significantly more volume or shorter times with the current volume.

I dont have any specifics on the numbers, but here is an example (I have no idea how valid these #'s are).

AAA_Cost

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by Austin97

Expanding roads increases the capacity that the roads can handle. The traffic will increase until the drive times are the same, but it still remains a fact that many more people will be driving on the same roads. In effect "reducing traffic".

Expanding roads increases capacity, but that capacity will simply be filled because more people will choose to drive. And thanks to the new road they will choose to drive more often. Put simply, new roads attract more cars and thus fail to reduce traffic. This is known as induced demand. The only way to relieve congestion--other than subsidizing other forms of transit--is to charge people to use the road.

[FueledByBlueBell]

Yeah, I can honestly say that our traffic sucks.

[FueledByBlueBell]

Originally Posted by orngkat

So maddening that things like the Circuit of the Americas can be built in a matter of a few years and any talk of mass transit never happens and turns into decades. I imagine the medical center will go up relatively quickly too. I guess there isn't enough money to be made on things like rail.

Agreed. The problem ain't going away so we need to get with it and now. More toll roads, better timing of lights, re-worked intersections (can we please start a thread on 183/360 intersection- WTH!), expanded rail and better bike lanes.

[Biscuits]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

Expanding roads increases capacity, but that capacity will simply be filled because more people will choose to drive. And thanks to the new road they will choose to drive more often. Put simply, new roads attract more cars and thus fail to reduce traffic. This is known as induced demand. The only way to relieve congestion--other than subsidizing other forms of transit--is to charge people to use the road.

Agreed.

MoPac and Hwy 290 could have their capacity doubled and the net result would be droves of people moving to places like Johnson City, based upon its "acceptable" commute times into Austin. Fast-forward several years and all of the growth -- spurred by the expanded roads -- would likely once again overwhelm MoPac and 290.

I prefer we just stop the insanity now and let people accept their "commute tax" for living x-miles away. Rush-hour driving from [insert suburb here] to Central Austin was never guaranteed to be painless.

Expanding Highways Induces Traffic - Transportation - Sierra Club

[centralaustinite]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

That is true of every effective solution.

We waited too long to fix the problem, now its not going to be cheap or painless.

Well, the underlying issue is that the funding mechanism for roads it broken! Since the TX leg refuses to raise the gasoline tax! And no one has proposed any viable alternative, so nothing gets funded, other than special deals, with county and cities throwing $ in, or for-profit firms building toll roads. That is the true underlying problem -- along with the separate one that increasing capacity only increases demand -- and it is broken at the state level!