But what about everybody who isn't a programmer? (college, salary)

[A-Tex]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

"Demand of the area"? Interesting because there seems to be plenty of demand for GIS professionals, CAD drafters, graphic designers, lab technicians, chemists, etc in Austin. And these jobs keep getting reposted because they aren't being filled. Yet the salaries stay low.

It's not the free market, it's culture. These jobs are undervalued so employers are unwilling to pay decently. Instead THEY COMPLAIN about how there's a "STEM shortage" or whatever.

No such cultural bias exists for software engineers, so their salaries are where they should be or higher.

If employers in an area are not willing to pay what you believe your skills are worth, than it absolutely is a supply and demand issue. There's demand for low paying positions and over supply of those feeling they're too skilled for those wages. Those particular positions must not be too mission critical if they get posted over and over again without being filled. Get the skills you need to get a job that's in demand and pays what you want to earn. Or take one of those low paying jobs and learn to live on less and work on a promotion. Or move to an area where those skills are in demand and meet your salary expectations. It's really that simple.

[MtnLion512]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

We keep hearing about how the Austin economy is booming and how many great jobs there are.

Sure there are, for programmers aka "developers" aka "software engineers".

What about everybody else?

I myself am a GIS guy so I look for those jobs. Every single one listed in the Austin area this year has been either very low paid or a temporary position at a local government. By low paid I don't mean $50k, I mean $12-14/hr.
Examples:
Environmental Mapping Technician
Data Collection Technician
GIS Analyst
City of Georgetown

I get it, lots of job applicants mean that employers can squeeze employees. But come on, how can a city function when the only professional job that pays decently is programming? On $12/hr you can't even pay rent, much less ever buy a house.

And this isn't even getting to the obscenely low wages for unskilled and less skilled work!

I'm an RN in an intensive care unit at a major hospital in Austin, and there are constantly new nurses being hired all over the hospital. Everyone in my graduating class (which was in Austin, not UT) had jobs right out of school. Seton & St. David's are also some of the area's largest employers.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by MtnLion512

I'm an RN in an intensive care unit at a major hospital in Austin, and there are constantly new nurses being hired all over the hospital. Everyone in my graduating class (which was in Austin, not UT) had jobs right out of school. Seton & St. David's are also some of the area's largest employers.

But what's the pay like?

[the_grimace]

Pay here is pretty bad. Such a high supply of workers right now in the city that lowball offers are the norm. Like OP mentioned, I'm seeing tons of college degree level jobs only paying $12-15 an hour, which is frankly just upsetting.

[Trainwreck20]

Union engineers? Pah! I know literally hundreds of engineers, and I don't think a single one is in a union, at least not that I can think of.

Sounds like you need to start your own consulting business, though - most of those low paying jobs probably only need a part time GIS guy not really a full-time one, which fits perfectly with consulting.

[je4xff]

Originally Posted by Lincolns_Fault

The high paid engineers you speak of likely have a solid PAC or internal like Union that keeps their wages high, they have lobbied and won, the rest suffer and get the scraps.

Uhhhhh no - we don't need (or want) unions here. Our salaries are purely supply/demand, tyvm.

[balor123]

Originally Posted by je4xff

Uhhhhh no - we don't need (or want) unions here. Our salaries are purely supply/demand, tyvm.

There are a few engineer unions but mostly in large mature industries, like auto and aerospace. I think there was one union that went on strike a few years ago but other than that it's extremely rare. There's simply no need for unionizing since engineers are generally treated pretty well and there's strong demand.

We could probably benefit from one though. Not for the strong arming tactics that unions are known for but simply to balance the power of corporations and keep them from breaking the law. Believe it or not, major companies in silicon valley had anti-poaching practices that went on for years before anyone did anything about it and it was no secret. They're paying for it now but the damage is done. Immigration laws are setup to allow large corporations to exploit immigrant workers, such that they're willing to work for wages often times lower than what they'd get in their home countries even or at least by some metric. Engineers would be paid much better if they enjoyed some of the same barriers to competition that other fields like medicine and banking enjoy. In most larger companies, engineer pay could double or even triple while still maintaining a healthy profit margin for the corporation.

[eileenkeeney]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Union engineers? Pah! I know literally hundreds of engineers, and I don't think a single one is in a union, at least not that I can think of.

Same.

I have never seen a union for jobs in my field.
Unions offer many advantages early in their life cycle, but eventually become self serving. (I am not sure this is the case with every Union, but it is my perception based on my knowledge of existing Unions).

[eileenkeeney]

Originally Posted by JH6

Government jobs usually have free healthcare premiums, and pension.

Also other little perks like every holiday off under the sun.

It isn't all salary it is the whole package.

Also you have to start somewhere and pay your dues. I know tons of people who work in Austin and commute to the cheaper suburbs because they can't afford a place in Austin.

Watch out for the "whole package" when deciding where to work.
That "whole package" often has a "can be terminated at any time" clause.
I picked a job, out of College, based on this "whole package", only to have the "can be terminated at any time" clause invoked about 13 years into my career.
Since I had already done 10 years in the Military before finishing college, after 13 years with my current employer, I was at a point where I did not have time to build up similar retirement benefits with another company.
Actually I missed qualifying for the old benefit package by about 1 month of employment when they applied the formula.

But basically a valuable chunk of the "whole package" was removed.

So really, one is better off picking a job based only on the salary and the current benefits one can use now. Pension benefits usually have a "can be taken away" clause.

[A-Tex]

Originally Posted by eileenkeeney

Watch out for the "whole package" when deciding where to work.
That "whole package" often has a "can be terminated at any time" clause.
I picked a job, out of College, based on this "whole package", only to have the "can be terminated at any time" clause invoked about 13 years into my career.
Since I had already done 10 years in the Military before finishing college, after 13 years with my current employer, I was at a point where I did not have time to build up similar retirement benefits with another company.
Actually I missed qualifying for the old benefit package by about 1 month of employment when they applied the formula.

But basically a valuable chunk of the "whole package" was removed.

So really, one is better off picking a job based only on the salary and the current benefits one can use now. Pension benefits usually have a "can be taken away" clause.

Texas is an employment-at-will state. As long as it isn't for one of the few legally protected reasons, an employer can terminate your employment whenever they want for whatever reason they want unless there is an agreement in place with the terms and conditions of termination explicitly spelled out in it.