Austin city council agree to cut 100 million from police budget (San Antonio: live, lawsuits)

[Need4Camaro]

If I gather correctly I believe Westerner was a resident of Austin (or at the very least, Texas) at one time before he relocated I believe to Denver so he does have a bit of insight as to what happens here.

I personally am not a firearm person and it would probably take a pending apocalypse before I buy one given how easy it is for it to fall in the wrong hands or be used against me. I have personally wondered if Austin particularly has a lower, higher or average firearm ownership rate compared to the rest of the state given how we are labeled the blue dot in the red sea.

[Need4Camaro]

I just say, while I personally have been let off the hook pretty easily in terms of dealing with police in my past, I wouldn’t be too quick to dismiss people who haven’t. There are some pretty big and valid concerns and dealing with the wrong cop could be a traumatic experience. Doesn’t mean I agree with how these situations may be handled but I can understand how and why we are at this crossroad today and I feel it would be best if we all respected each others standpoint on these issues as to evade more distrust and more propaganda.

[Westerner92]

Originally Posted by USMC0372

It seems that no answer, rationale, or logic will settle well with you. It seems like you are anti-law enforcement which is clearly evident by calling Police Officers "Meathead Twitchies". Tell me, who hurt you?

By all means, answer the questions I asked. There is no rationale to the high incidence of police killings of unarmed people. The only reason we’re having this discussion is because it takes loud, pointed criticism to get comfy suburbanites to notice there’s a real problem and move the dial. In particular, I think the older generations are mostly oblivious to the kind of psychological profile younger police have.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

By all means, answer the questions I asked. There is no rationale to the high incidence of police killings of unarmed people. The only reason we’re having this discussion is because it takes loud, pointed criticism to get comfy suburbanites to notice there’s a real problem and move the dial. In particular, I think the older generations are mostly oblivious to the kind of psychological profile younger police have.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

Over 4 years 812 people were killed by police. 32% were black, 14% were unarmed, so 36 unarmed black people were killed by police (9/year). During that same time about 10,800 black men were murdered (93% by other black people).

Im not saying unarmed people being killed by police is acceptable, but it doesn't meet my definition of "high" or indicate that there is some kind of systemic problem. The 10,800 murdered each year *is* a systemic problem. Focusing on that would save more lives and might actually reduce shootings by police too.

To me this is reminiscent of school shootings. They are absolutely terrible, but the volume of them is incredibly low and the probability of your children being killed in school is vanishingly small. Even so, many people were practically hysterical about the risk to their children because they were unable to understand the probabilities.

[Westerner92]

Originally Posted by Austin97

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

Over 4 years 812 people were killed by police. 32% were black, 14% were unarmed, so 36 unarmed black people were killed by police (9/year). During that same time about 10,800 black men were murdered (93% by other black people).

Im not saying unarmed people being killed by police is acceptable, but it doesn't meet my definition of "high" or indicate that there is some kind of systemic problem.

To me this is reminiscent of school shootings. They are absolutely terrible, but the volume of them is incredibly low and the probability of your children being killed in school is vanishingly small.

It's worth noting those four years were 2009-2012, and the problem has gotten worse. From 2015-present, Texas has had 502 police killings, 196 of them didn't have firearms. That's just the tip of the iceberg concerning how police approach the public, knowing that they have impunity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ings-database/

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

It's worth noting those four years were 2009-2012, and the problem has gotten worse. From 2015-present, Texas has had 502 police killings, 196 of them didn't have firearms. That's just the tip of the iceberg concerning how police approach the public, knowing that they have impunity.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...ings-database/

Not having firearms does not mean unarmed. The numbers today are roughly the same.

Again on the order of 10 unarmed black men are killed by police each year. In 2019 it was 13.

10,000 black men are murdered each year.

[Westerner92]

Originally Posted by Austin97

Not having firearms does not mean unarmed.

Tell that to the Second Amendment fetishizers.

And being armed doesn't mean hostile or unjustified usage. Look at Philando Castile and Breonna Taylor's boyfriend.

The numbers today are roughly the same.

Again on the order of 10 unarmed black men are killed by police each year. In 2019 it was 13.

10,000 black men are murdered each year.

I mean, aside from mentioning race and gender a couple posts ago, it hasn't been relevant to this discussion and seems to be dishonestly trying to narrow the goalposts. Even then, your numbers aren't supported, though you get the order of magnitude right.
Unarmed black men killed by year - 2015: 36, 2016: 18, 2017: 21, 2018: 22, 2019: 13, 2020 so far: 8. This isn't counting toy guns, knives, tasers, blunt objects, pepper spray, CHL carriers, people whose shoulders got tired while holding hands up and flinched, etc. This isn't counting women or other races either.
Number of black men death by homicide - 2015: 8021, 2016: 8532, 2017: 8643, data by the CDC hasn't been processed yet for 2018 and 2019.

The discussion goes far beyond unarmed black men being killed. It's about how even in the most egregious of civil rights violations caught on video and paraded around outrage media, police get off scot-free. It's about how for every one of those viral videos, there's one where police shoot someone in the back, there's a report of someone unsuspecting getting killed in their own home, and who knows how many incidents aren't recorded by outside observers. It's about the everyday conduct of police, including how their social media content divulges their attitude and intent. It calls the entire integrity of the justice systems in this country into question. For awhile, my mentality was that criminals and American police deserve each other, but it's becoming increasingly clear that the pointless and unresolvable arms race that is the "War on Drugs" comes with collateral that is detrimental to us all.

[ScoPro]

“Second Amendment fetishizers”?

Wow!!! Nothing like opening a can of worms there.

Agreed about the failed WoD.

[Westerner92]

Originally Posted by ScoPro

“Second Amendment fetishizers”?

Wow!!! Nothing like opening a can of worms there.

Agreed about the failed WoD.

It’s an important point. There are a few instances I can think of off the top of my head where plain clothes officers and/or no-knock warrants on innocent households result in justified gun brandishing/usage, and the victim gets killed with no justice. It’s the exact kind of “government overreach” the Second Amendment supposedly protects against.

[karpo1]

Originally Posted by Westerner92

Tell that to the Second Amendment fetishizers.

The discussion goes far beyond unarmed black men being killed. It's about how even in the most egregious of civil rights violations caught on video and paraded around outrage media, police get off scot-free.

If you like to prove it with statistics, maybe compare similar incidents with white population with similar background as black and police encounters.
If one cannot honestly compare numbers, results are rubbish.