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A lot of families in Australia are forced to have both wife and husband working to repay their mortgage. The average household survives with two $30k - $40k jobs.
No, they don't.
In Sydney the median income (the average would be higher) for two income families with children is $2537/week (that's $131,924/year). For families without children it's $2,302.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindatess
Relatively skilled workers can earn $45k a year, but it doesn't really rise that fast from there onwards unless you are really good at what you do. However, if you add in the interest earned from savings, then the average income for older workers can be pulled much higher even though the actual employment income is relatively steady.
I guess relatively skilled is a relative term.
An accounting grad straight out of uni can pull in $50k/year fairly easily and I've come across some very average accounting grads.
In Sydney the median income (the average would be higher) for two income families with children is $2537/week (that's $131,924/year). For families without children it's $2,302.
I guess relatively skilled is a relative term.
An accounting grad straight out of uni can pull in $50k/year fairly easily and I've come across some very average accounting grads.
Yes, but does that rise relatively fast or not? Furthermore, there are plenty of engineering graduates that only start at around $40k and stay there relatively for quite some time.
Household income includes rent, interest, dividends and so on; not just the employment income... A lot of those on $65k a year median probably don't rely only on their employment income. I'm not sure why the average job would pay $65k just to turn up and complete average work. I know that APS 3,4 doesn't even pay that high.
I'm shocked to see the prices on homes in Australia, esp Brisbane ($500-$800K seems the "norm"). Sydney has NOTHING on realtor.com under 200 grand, not even a shack. Are Australians super wealthy, and if so how and why? What does a "middle class" person earn there?
I've not used realtor.com only domain and realestate.com.au. Try looking north of Brisbane up to about Beerwah, there's plenty of good priced property within a train journey to the CBD if you want to travel that far.
A third or fourth year accountant with CA/CPA should be pulling in $80k+ without too much trouble. Honestly, if they're still only making $50k/year they're average at best. Move into management accounting and you're looking at $90-$130k at 5+ years. That's still just working as an accountant, not at a managerial or partner level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindatess
Household income includes rent, interest, dividends and so on; not just the employment income... A lot of those on $65k a year median probably don't rely only on their employment income. I'm not sure why the average job would pay $65k just to turn up and complete average work. I know that APS 3,4 doesn't even pay that high.
I sincerely doubt that the average punter on $65k is deriving a meaningful amount of their income from passive investments.
The APS has always underpaid, but provides more benefits. Lower the risk lower the return etc.
Sorry about it being done to death. I'm new on the Australian forum. My son just spent a year in New Zealand and loved it and I got curious about COL in both countries. Are middle-classers (on their income alone) able to get mortgages with these kinds of home prices? What are property taxes like in general?
No need to be sorry about anything, the real estate values are an eye opener to any outsider.
Most middle classers do struggle initially, until they use their nous (use low doc and low deposit home loans etc) or get a lucky break.
A third or fourth year accountant with CA/CPA should be pulling in $80k+ without too much trouble. Honestly, if they're still only making $50k/year they're average at best. Move into management accounting and you're looking at $90-$130k at 5+ years. That's still just working as an accountant, not at a managerial or partner level.
I sincerely doubt that the average punter on $65k is deriving a meaningful amount of their income from passive investments.
The APS has always underpaid, but provides more benefits. Lower the risk lower the return etc.
I wish I was as lucky as those median income earners. The only reason why my income is anywhere near the median is due to income from dividends. Even something as low as $300,000 in savings which is relatively common will produce an extra $20k in income. ~7% return + franking credits. Those with low interest savings accounts can easily add an extra $10k to their income annually. This is the amount I saved up just over 15 years. The average worker would be older than 33 (18+15) and have a lot more savings.
An accountant is not an average earner though... The median cuts out the higher and lower earners. Therefore, we still have to find out what is this average earner supposed to be. Is it a high school teacher? Even that averages under $60k...
I don't see how the numbers match up to reality without extra passive investments...
Yes, but does that rise relatively fast or not? Furthermore, there are plenty of engineering graduates that only start at around $40k and stay there relatively for quite some time.
Household income includes rent, interest, dividends and so on; not just the employment income... A lot of those on $65k a year median probably don't rely only on their employment income. I'm not sure why the average job would pay $65k just to turn up and complete average work. I know that APS 3,4 doesn't even pay that high.
Depends on what department you are in, and whether there are ongoing opportunities for O/T, Shift Penalties etc.
APS 3 or 4 is often fairly menial jobs with low skill/education level required, not meaning to sound elitist.
APS 5 and above would be middle class though, and usually tertiary level education.
An APS Level 6 (employed for 2 years or more) on $109K + OT/ Shift allowances + 15.4% Super is on a pretty good wicket by most standards, and has good borrowing power and security for a home loan.
An accountant is not an average earner though... The median cuts out the higher and lower earners. Therefore, we still have to find out what is this average earner supposed to be. Is it a high school teacher? Even that averages under $60k...
The median doesn't cut anyone out, it just takes the middle value. The arithmetic mean will be higher than the median because of the way income is distributed. A public servant, including a teacher, does not represent the average Australian except maybe in Canberra. To be fair, the minimum wage is $30k more or less, to say the average family live on a 2x the minimum wage and a bit more is just not grounded in reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindatess
I don't see how the numbers match up to reality without extra passive investments...
I'm shocked to see the prices on homes in Australia, esp Brisbane ($500-$800K seems the "norm"). Sydney has NOTHING on realtor.com under 200 grand, not even a shack. Are Australians super wealthy, and if so how and why? What does a "middle class" person earn there?
Unlike in America, I would only look for flats(apartments) or units if I were to stay/live in Australia b/c of affordability issues.
It's even worse than you imagine, OP, because all those loans are variable interest, and interest rates are way higher there. No 3.5% 30 year fixed in Australia. Today one big bank is offering to fix the rate for 15 years for a measly 7.74%. Yikes! I lived through 19 % mortgage interest rates in the 90s. Even as recently as 2008 they were 10%.
Most of my friends had help from parents to buy a house. The lucky ones bought a small investment property in their early 20s (in the early 90s you could get a decent suburban three bedroom house or unit for low six figures. They now have massive equity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindatess
A lot of families in Australia are forced to have both wife and husband working to repay their mortgage. The average household survives with two $30k - $40k jobs. A lot of people, especially the younger generation are only on part time jobs and are lucky to be earning $25k a year. The unemployment issue is hidden very well, with concentrations in areas around Bankstown.
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That's minimum wage. I suspect five minutes on google will find your assertion that lots of adults live on minmum wage to be wildly exaggerated...
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