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I can pick up mid '90s lexus LS400s for less than the BMW 7 series of the same year in the same condition, so no, they aren't holding any better. Luxury cars simply don't.
Not sure your example is especially useful. You are talking about 15 year old cars. A 1996 7 series is probably worth less than $5K (according to Edmunds). It looks like a Lexus LS that age is worth the same.
Not sure your example is especially useful. You are talking about 15 year old cars. A 1996 7 series is probably worth less than $5K (according to Edmunds). It looks like a Lexus LS that age is worth the same.
the point was that the top luxury cars tend to depreciate at the same rate, which is faster than the lower level cars, regardless of who makes them. it's not just the worries about maintenance, but the lack of status that drives the price down, be it a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus (or Acura). In each case, the lower spec versions of those brands (like the BMW 5 and 3, the Mercedes C class, the Lexus ES, and Acura Integras and TSXs) all depreciate at a slower rate then their higher spec stablemates, to the point where after about 10-15 years, all levels of models in a brand will tend to be about the same selling price.
Again, top luxury cars don't depreciate faster because they are crap OR because they were made in a certain region, but for other reasons, which is bad for original owners, but good for those of us that want bargains on the secondhand market.
Insurance isn't necessarily more expensive on 'luxury' brands. I'm paying less for the same coverage on my 2002 ML320 than I was on a bottom of the market 2006 Ford Focus.
It is all based on supply and demand there are a lot of 5 series, S class or E classes out there. However look at Land Rover Defenders espesically 1997s they are selling in the 30k range. My daily driver a 2002 G500 with over 100K will still will go for over 25-30k. 2002 G500 pretty good buy 70k in 2002 and looks just about the same as a 2012, thats the great thing about a Gwagon will never go out of style. Being hand-made helps too.
If I was looking at buying a car I would take an used 96 SL600 for 12k over something like a new accord any day of the week. Of course that is personal preference. But it really is supply and demand. I think some of the cars out there like an SL-600 is a steal at some of the low prices I have seen online.
In shopping for a used Honda CRV, I notice used Mercedes and BMW SUVs of same year/similar mileage are around the same price. I would think new Mercedes and BMW are at least twice the price of a new Honda or Toyota RAV4. Is it just that the pricey vehicles depreciate *that* fast and Honda/Toyota keeps their value that well?
Luxury cars are not particularly well built, and are usually more complex - thus more stuff goes wrong, and it costs more to fix it (and, really, if you want a luxury car, you get to pay a luxury price for everything). Even general maintenance is usually more expensive.
Luxury cars are not particularly well built, and are usually more complex - thus more stuff goes wrong, and it costs more to fix it (and, really, if you want a luxury car, you get to pay a luxury price for everything). Even general maintenance is usually more expensive.
Unless its some sports car I would never own a non luxury vehicle. When you get to ones with a base MSRP around 50k, the build quality, features, safety, engineering embarrass a regular car. There is no getting around that.
In a Lexus, they are extremely complex and yet still the most reliable cars around and the Germans have improved tons.
the point was that the top luxury cars tend to depreciate at the same rate, which is faster than the lower level cars, regardless of who makes them. it's not just the worries about maintenance, but the lack of status that drives the price down, be it a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus (or Acura). In each case, the lower spec versions of those brands (like the BMW 5 and 3, the Mercedes C class, the Lexus ES, and Acura Integras and TSXs) all depreciate at a slower rate then their higher spec stablemates, to the point where after about 10-15 years, all levels of models in a brand will tend to be about the same selling price.
Again, top luxury cars don't depreciate faster because they are crap OR because they were made in a certain region, but for other reasons, which is bad for original owners, but good for those of us that want bargains on the secondhand market.
I agree with this. 15 year old luxury cars, unless they are truly special, are essentially fully depreciated.
Four year old luxury cars (BMW, MB, Infiniti, Lexus, Audi) depreciate noticably more than the same age Honda/Toyota.
- high end cars out of warranty carry high maintenance expenses
- high end cars have high insurance costs because collision repairs are expensive
- some of the buyers of high end brands don't like to drive old ones (past the 3 year lease for example)
If you can do your own maintenance, owning a used high end car can be a very attractive choice.
Quote:"If you can do your own maintenance, owning a used high end car can be a very attractive choice."
Well, for a lot of the high-end used cars, doing the maintenance yourself can be quite impractical. As a hobby I used to build pro-street race cars (you can take a 1960's Chevy apart with about 3 wrenches) .
But for an example of a high-end car, I got a new 928S4 back in 1988, (kept it until around 2004). You can get them today for $6K-$12K. I bought the service manuals (it was 9 volumes, $1200, and when the volumes were lined up on a shelf, were feet long). After looking through the manuals, seeing statements similar to "using tool J-182 with the F-120 attachment, remove the left retaining bolt.", or to replace the water pump, "first, remove engine". I would need a tool set that would cost many thousands of dollars, and those tools would only be good for that car.
Some dealers wouldn't even touch the car, as they see them so rarely, that they tend not to have a mechanic familiar enough with the vehicle.
Fortunately, I found a small shop not to far away that only worked on Mercedes and Porsches. (He never had to advertise, as he got all his business by word of mouth). He groaned when he saw it, and said "I hate these cars", but he worked on it for years.
Besides just maintenance, there are other things: I lost the gas cap. That was $127. Tires were a fortune. It goes on and on.
But other than that, not much beats a high-end car (and a used one is perfectly fine, just remember that the purchase price is just the beginning)
I don't really get down with KBB or whatever they say a value of a car is. I only use NADA or Black Book, but even then it is very important to know what people (car dealers) are actually PAYING for vehicles at the auctions - because obviously thats where the rubber meets the road, KBB doesn't buy cars.
Right now a 2006 Lexus LS430 with 69,397 is going to average around $20,490.
A 2006 BMW 750 i with the same mileage is going to run $18,578 or $19,829 if it is an L.
A 2006 M-B S500 with the same mileage is going to run $20,413.
These are national numbers for the week ending Nov.30 from one of the largest auction groups in the country. Now, you can compare those numbers to a typical midsize or full size non luxury car, but you have to remember - these last few years have been really tough on the new car market, so there are fewer late model used cars out there which has really inflated values on normal, non-luxury vehicles. But like most every one is saying, luxury cars particularly German ones, take a beating the first couple of years.
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