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Great question. I've wondered the same--- and have considered some of the vehicles on your list.
I think it's worth it if you plan to hold onto the vehicle for a very, very long time. Like 500,000 miles or more. At least that's the way I look at it.
Yes... If you are buying NEW, If you buy dino fuel, If you pay for maint, if you drive average distances... it is of very minimal value to buy new diesel USA car. There are PLENTY of throw away gas cars that are quite dependable and CHEAP. If you buy new and trade up, diesel probably not great value either.
I don't recommend NEW diesel purchase for economics (unless you are a HIGH mileage driver (have a document / medical delivery service) There is a guy in TX putting well over 100k / yr on his TDI's.
I have tried out TDI's with 550k, still getting 50 mpg and going strong.
If you run alternative fuel, the costs get REALLY cheap for diesel. But again I would not buy new.
There are some feedstocks that will run well in new diesels, but grease will be a challenge. I would be making CLEAN / DRY Bio-D if I was to try running in a new diesel. (Which I never will...)
I only have about 40 more yrs of driving left, so my beater Rabbits and Passat TDI's will get me through. After all... the SAME engine fits about 20 different models of VW / Audi. And I have plenty of spare bodies AND engines (they are each DIRT cheap).
My 'Baby' / 'workhorse' TDI got a new Windshield today... I can hardly wait to SEE (now to buff the headlights out...)
she only has 285k, she would like to be pulled out of service for a few critical items, but I need to have time to drop a new piston ($12 on Ebay) in one of the Passat wagons I got CHEAP. It was driven with a leaky injector and melted a small edge of piston (ran fine, but I preferred to FIX it right, as it will be my 50 mpg RV ;-). I'm adding a water heater, pump and outdoor shower. I also am making a Teardrop camping trailer for LONG trips. Usually it pulls my motorcycle trailer with my vintage Thumper. to places like Canyonlands NP. It is nice to have a 50 mpg 'toter'
BEST option... Buy a NICE A2 (85-94) GTI, ($300 - $3000) throw the gas engine out (or sell...) drop in a TDI ($800). 50 mpg 'sports' car for under $5000
VW... drivers wanted... TDI REALLY enhances that experience.
I'm very interested...where can I find these cars/bodies/engines at such a decent price? Something for me to start saving for pronto! Not doing car payments and not afraid to wrench though I haven't put in an engine before, but shouldn't be that hard given the right tools and guidance. I could possibly look into getting an older VW as a project car that I can fix up and get running while still driving my Pontiac 6000 wagon as the current DD. I recently gotten my brother interested in a diesel based car once I told him of the possible MPG's he can get out of them.
I commute 250 miles a week for work so it would be really cool to not have to fill up each week. Plus long road trips would be awesome in not having to fill up as often. Driving a manual would be nice too, with the only downside in driving in heavy traffic.
Years back a former neighbor of mine was telling me how he used vegetable/used cooking oil in his old Mercedes diesel engine. And it smelled like fries at his car exhaust...
Can this still be done with the new diesels & urea?
Yes and no.
On some cars you can run undiluted vegetable oil. Rudolf Diesel originally invented the diesel engine to run on peanut oil.
Older diesels will have no problems. I had a UK Ford Escort I ran on veggie oil up to a 90% concentration with no problems.
Tried the same on a slightly newer Mondeo, and it wore out the bearings in the pump.
Modern diesel has lubricants and things in it which veggie oil doesn't.
Veg oil also has a different viscosity. It's much thicker.
You can still do it, but will require a twin tank set up, and a heater to heat the veg oil.
You can also mix it with kerosene, or a little gasoline to thin it out
The engine should be started on diesel, then you can switch over.
there are single tank systems available, but these require different injectors and stuff as well as a manifold heater
Unless you have a seriously cheap supplier of veg oil, or cover a huge mileage, it's going to take you a bit of a time to recoup the savings
I'm very interested...where can I find these cars/bodies/engines at such a decent price? Something for me to start saving for pronto! Not doing car payments and not afraid to wrench though I haven't put in an engine before, but shouldn't be that hard given the right tools and guidance. I could possibly look into getting an older VW as a project car that I can fix up and get running while still driving my Pontiac 6000 wagon as the current DD. I recently gotten my brother interested in a diesel based car once I told him of the possible MPG's he can get out of them.
I commute 250 miles a week for work so it would be really cool to not have to fill up each week. Plus long road trips would be awesome in not having to fill up as often. Driving a manual would be nice too, with the only downside in driving in heavy traffic.
Here is a good search engine for locating TDI's. I suggest picking one with an ALH motor , 1999-2003 , they are easy to work on and get the best economy. Foobert's TDI Hunt
Pick up a software and cable called Vag-Comm and a set of VW tools from Metal nerd and you can pretty much do it all. I've done a couple of timing belts , which is the main thing that needs to be changed on an ALH engine (every 100k miles) and it wasn't to bad.
Is that why when they add veg/bio to diesel fuel the lubricity of the fuel goes up?
Have to be honest, I don't really know how all this works, I just did some research years ago while trying to decide if it was worth using veg oil, what I say on here is what I found out.
Both cars ran well, with no noticeable drop in performance or economy, however the newer car's injection pump failed, apparently common when running high mixes of pure veg oil.
From what I gather, Pure veg oil at ambient temperature doesn't lubricate the moving parts of fuel, or injection pumps, and can cause exaggerated wear.
It can also clog injectors, filter etc.
Not for any other reason than that the engines were not designed to run on it, but to run on pump diesel.
Borrowed from a website.
Quote:
Straight vegetable oils have a higher viscosity and ignition temperature than diesel fuel or biodiesel and therefore must be heated when operating a diesel engine.
Quote:
Vegetable oils, which have not been heated, lead to difficulties starting the engine and have negative effects on the engine´s performance and life cycle. Cold, viscous vegetable oil strains the injection system and burns incompletely. In the long term the unburnt fuel leads to deposit in the combustion chamber of the motor.
At last for a long-term and smooth operation with vegetable oil a conversion is mandatory
Remember, bio fuel, or treated vegetable oil are not the same as pure veg oil.
Rudolf Diesel originally intended his engine to run on a variety of fuels including coal dust.
What could have happened to your pump is dirty fuel or water or the VEG-oil cleaned all the gunk out of your fuel system and it was this crap that damaged your pump or your pumps seals were not compatible with bio fuel.
Biodiesel has natural solvent properties. Fuel filters will initially require frequent changing as deposits left by petroleum diesel are cleaned. Biodiesel degrades rubber, so rubber components will need to be switched to plastic components such as Viton. Biodiesel also degrades paint finishes if left in contact for a period of time.
Biodiesel, even at low blends, provides a significant benefit as a lubricity additive in diesel fuel. Specially formulated SVO blended additives can also be used for lubricity. The University of Saskatchewan develops and tests biodiesel- and SVO-blended lubricity additives.
Biodiesel can be mixed at any rate with petroleum diesel, or used at a 100% rate in any diesel
Low sulfur reference diesel fuel was used with no additives and had a lubricity number of 0.813 using the
M-ROCLE test. Alcohol esters and derivatives of different vegetable oils were added to the reference
fuel at 1% by volume. The lubricity numbers are outlined on above graph. All additives exceeded the
minimum required lubricity of 1.0 with the canola oil derivative performing the best.
Inductively coupled plasma (ICP)
spectrometry, microscopic ferrography, and magnetic
particle counts were employed to infer engine wear rates.
The oil filter debris and engine oil physical characteristics
were also analyzed at an independent laboratory. An
encouraging 1995 result involved the treatment of
unadditized, low sulfur winter diesel with 10% Canola
methyl ester. The test data revealed a 30% decrease in
iron wear rate and a small ~1% increase in fuel economy
from the 10% CME biodiesel treatment. This was
followed by summer tests using 10% and 5% CME in
No.2 commercial diesel fuel. An 18% wear reduction in
iron was measured at the 10% CME treatment, while the
5% CME produced a 30% wear reduction and 4.5% gain
in fuel economy with the commercial summer fuel.
Finally unadditized winter No.1 diesel fuel was compared
in 1996 to the same fuel with 5% additions of CME http://www.frybrid.com/Lubricity_Canola.pdf
SVO blended additives can also be used for lubricity. The University of Saskatchewan develops and tests biodiesel- and SVO-blended lubricity additives.
A: Yes, any type of vegetable oil will work in your Greasecar, including hydrogenated oils. As long as the oil is filtered and free from water, bacterial and chemical contamination, it can be burned in a Greasecar. http://http://www.greasecar.com/faq
Last edited by snofarmer; 10-08-2012 at 09:09 AM..
A diesel engine can be worth it in certain situations. If you're getting a daily driver and wanting to save money on fuel, you really need to be careful with the numbers. It can take a long time to make up the initial cost in fuel savings.
Thing is, with compact cars the way they are now, you might be better off doing that. You can get near 40mpg highway on several GOOD compact cars that can cost half as much to buy as a diesel car.
Diesel engines of course have other advantages in "work" vehicles, like better torque. So if you're looking for a truck to do towing then a diesel is more than just better MPG.
One of the biggest reasons people consider buying a diesel car is the fuel economy. Diesel engines are much more efficient than gasoline engines. Diesel fuel economy compared to gasoline is about 33 percent better. This means that you end up filling up your tank fewer times since you are getting more miles to the gallon. Many European diesel cars get 40, or even 50 miles to the gallon on the highway. Diesel fuel is usually priced at, or a little bit above the price of regular gasoline. Biodiesel is even more expensive, but is not readily available at many stations. Still, the price of diesel is not 33 percent higher than gasoline, so the cost benefits to diesel outweigh gasoline.
It is incontestable that diesels make exemplary fuel mileage. Although the new VW Jetta TDI posts only 41 mpg in their official advertisements, I have heard of people putting up numbers as impressive as 55 mpg without modification.
The diesel versions of ¾ ton and larger pickups make significantly better mileage than their gasoline powered counterparts.
One of the defining attributes of the diesel engine is its legendary longevity. Cummins Diesels are designed to last a million miles. Among passenger cars, it is very common that cars rust and break to pieces long before their diesel drive train is ready to throw in the towel. In fact, in parts of the world where diesels are more prevalent, it is frequent for consumers to put a diesel engine in their previously gas-powered car to go another several hundred thousand miles.
Last edited by snofarmer; 10-08-2012 at 10:14 AM..
A diesel engine can be worth it in certain situations. If you're getting a daily driver and wanting to save money on fuel, you really need to be careful with the numbers. It can take a long time to make up the initial cost in fuel savings.
Thing is, with compact cars the way they are now, you might be better off doing that. You can get near 40mpg highway on several GOOD compact cars that can cost half as much to buy as a diesel car.
Diesel engines of course have other advantages in "work" vehicles, like better torque. So if you're looking for a truck to do towing then a diesel is more than just better MPG.
Under ideal situations, you know driving 10 mph below the speed limit downhill with a tail wind. Just look at Fords Eco boost F150's, everyone I know that owns them love the truck and the power but claim they are getting know where near the advertised mileage. I drive very agressive and still get 46-48mpg in my Jetta, I don't think I'd get the 40mpg that the Ford Fiesta advertises (just using this as an example) with me behind the wheel.
As far as people towing, there is nothing like towing with a diesel. Those that say "my gasser tows just fine" has never towed with a diesel !
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