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greenie ... NO, the Subaru does not and never has come with a "V-6".
They have a flat configuration 3.0 liter 6 cylinder motor ... which gets, at best, low 20's for fuel economy.
Subie doesn't sell a lot of these 6's compared to the 4 cylinder powered versions because (IMO) the improved performance over the 4 cylinder motors isn't justified by initial or operating costs, and the motor only comes in top of the line standard optioned vehicles ... which makes it all the more expensive to buy.
Once you've reached that price point, there's a lot of other AWD vehicles that come into play in the marketplace. Subie's charms lie in a reasonably priced AWD car package that is nice when you need a sturdy, capable, and durable AWD package. At the higher price points, Volvo's and Audi's (among others) start looking a lot more attractive and comfortable.
Having had the use of a XT6 Subie for a year (a friend stationed overseas left it with me), I'd say it was a miserable package for what the Subie was all about. The power was so over-the-top compared to the traction and handling that it was a very difficult car to drive in the adverse conditions one would want to use it for. Even on dry pavement, the power came in so hard and fast that it was a challenge not to spin the wheels .... and the fuel economy wasn't what you'd call "economy", mid teens at best with careful driving.
If you don't need the bad weather/roads AWD package of a Subie, then there's a lot of better choices in the marketplace for economy, performance, durability, comfort, convenience at their price point. The OP here, however, is not going to achieve all the desired combination with today's current vehicles .... I know of a couple from the 70-80's that would do it, but they don't make them anymore and most of those that were sold are now off the road.
Okay. That means it has a 6-cylinder inline, right? A V6 is a 6-cylinder in a V-shape. Is that correct? I thought the AWD might serve the OP well because he wants to tow a trailer into the mountains, where there is snow.
Okay. That means it has a 6-cylinder inline, right? A V6 is a 6-cylinder in a V-shape. Is that correct? I thought the AWD might serve the OP well because he wants to tow a trailer into the mountains, where there is snow.
an Inline motor has the cylinders arranged all in a row, adjacent to each other. Think in terms of a Chevy or Ford or BMW (among many, many others) Inline 6 cylinder. This configuration makes for a tall and long motor, with a long crankshaft.
a "flat" motor is configured with half the cylinders on each side in a flat configuration. Think in terms of an air-cooled VW Bug motor, a Corvair, or the Subaru 4 cylinder motor, or many others of this configuration. It allows a much shorter and more rigid crankshaft and motor, shorter camshaft, fewer main bearings to support the crankshaft, and a lighter crankcase than a long Inline motor, with a much lower profile height compared to an Inline motor. It may also allow for a lower center of gravity in a car.
A "v" motor has the cylinders spaced apart in banks at a certain included angle. It's a taller motor than the flat motor, but is just as short and rigid.
There isn't room for a V-6 motor of 3.0 liter size under the hood of a Subie as currently configured.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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I really enjoy the 52 MPG in my B4 ('96-'97) Passat TDI's and the wagon has a 25 gal tank, perfect for that 1000 mi weekend trip. If you are a bio-D homebrewer you can top off before you leave and take quite a trip.
The B4V (wagon version) is pretty hard to find (only 700 sent to North America) You might have to make your own, from a GLX (gas) and a wrecked TDI. The used TDI's can have a lot of miles, I recently looked at one with 550,000 miles and still running great.
I'm partial to the pre 1999.5 TDI's, as they have the same block configuration of all WC 1975-1999.5, and you can drop it into any of them. (less electronics too)
Thanks both of you for explaining this to me. I'm trying to learn more about about cars and engines and you've taught me a lot!!!
Greenie
No prob! I would have explained a little more like Sunsprit kindly did, but Im at work and can only pop on for short spurts. I hope the illustration I gave will make more sense now that Sunsprit described in detail how a flat engine works.
Having had the use of a XT6 Subie for a year (a friend stationed overseas left it with me), I'd say it was a miserable package for what the Subie was all about. The power was so over-the-top compared to the traction and handling that it was a very difficult car to drive in the adverse conditions one would want to use it for. Even on dry pavement, the power came in so hard and fast that it was a challenge not to spin the wheels .... and the fuel economy wasn't what you'd call "economy", mid teens at best with careful driving.
I suspect you didn't do much of the aforementioned "careful driving" if you only manged mid-teens out of it and found it "a challenge not to spin the wheels" even on dry pavement. We're talking about a car here with all of 145HP. I used to have a 185HP AWD car that weighed about the same and I had a hard time breaking traction on pavement with that thing, even with open diffs all around. I also used to have a 225HP WRX with no tarmac handling problems whatsoever.
A friend of mine used to rallycross an XT6 and I got to drive it a couple of times. I found it annoyingly prone to understeer (rear LSD might have helped) but otherwise reasonably manageable on dirt. I can't imagine how it could be that much of a handful on pavement.
And finally, with all that said, you're lamenting a 25-year-old design. Do you not think maybe Subaru has improved the driving characteristics of its cars just a little bit since then?
Gee, thanks, Drover ... for the lecture on my driving habits. You don't know me, you don't know where I drive, you don't know the conditions I drive in ... but by golly, you know that I'm a hotrodder. Gosh, you've got to be one of the most incredibly prescient automotive experts known to mankind ..... my hat's off to all of the cars you've had the wisdom to own, drive, borrow, touch or smell ... or maybe you saw on the street one day at a concour's.
Consider, too, that I drive all of my vehicles well into the mid 6 figures ... that doesn't suggest I drive them abusively or excessively hard. That includes BMW's, MB's, Ford's, Dodge's, AlfaRomeo's, Subaru's, and many others. I rarely buy a car with less than 100K on the clock, where everybody else has taken the depreciation hit and mileage deduct off the value of the car. I typically get several hundred thousand miles on my clutches ... they generally only get replaced because a motor or trans is out of the car for other reasons. That includes getting 200K on the clutch in a '72 BMW 2002 that was used for towing a small boat trailer ....
What I was pointing out for the OP was that Subie 6-cylinder cars with AWD aren't noted for fuel economy, which was a direction of this thread and greenie's postings.
The 2.7 liter motor in the XT-6 might not have been a HP powerhouse compared to a lot of other 3 liter motors in the marketplace in it's era, but Subie definitely dialed up a lot of torque just over 2,000 RPM that came on with a rush after not much power coming up off idle. With the relatively low gearing, the power came on pretty abruptly ... and the car wasn't a very satisfactory poor road driver or bad weather driver. My friend never got better fuel mileage than I did ... he bought it as an AWD "sporty" car, which was the market segment it was created for, and never sold very well.
While I will acknowledge that Subaru has since gone on to much higher HP outputs and more refined engine mapping and chassis/suspension, I think you'd be hard pressed to make a case that Subie 6 cylinder AWD cars are fuel economy standouts. In almost every consumer or owner report review, fuel economy of these cars is considered a drawback to operating one. Even the 4cylinder Subie models of much less HP fall into that objective complaint. At this point, one cannot get the AWD capability for nothing ... be it a Subie, Audi, Volvo, MB, BMW, or any other AWD car where you can compare the fuel economy side-by-side with stablemates with comparable engines and much better fuel economy.
In the context of the OP's concerns ... a FWD wagon would be closer to meeting the high fuel economy desired, a manual transmission, adverse weather driving ability, roominess, and the possibility of towing a small trailer. Subie doesn't build one, especially the H-6 powered outbacks.
You might also want to consider my post about older cars in light of the OP's request for a vehicle under $10,000.00. That speaks to the secondary marketplace, so we are searching there for an older ... not newer or new ... vehicle. Unless it's really beat and tired, there aren't too many high fuel mileage wagons in the marketplace that are less than 10 years old at the desired price point ... which suggests seeking out those older design cars. Passat TDI wagons (few that there are in the country) appear to be bringing a premium dollar these days in the land of high fuel prices, so they're not going to fit the OP's profile.
Pehaps, Drover ... with all of your renowned expertise in the world of automotive, you'd know of a wagon that will satisfy the OP's wish list?
Last edited by sunsprit; 10-24-2007 at 09:42 AM..
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