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Nothing wrong with wanting a reliable point A to B car. Some people on forums get there sophomoric thrills by being an arse to other posters. I wouldn't worry about the comment sections. I find it funny people would be calling you, sheep and brain washed when for the most part all the cars look alike today. Yet they sit behind their look alike sedan or SUV and sing the song of individuality?
I don't see how you can generalize all point A to B drivers as being dolts that barely can cope with the arduous task of driving. That's insulting a large group of people, many that don't fall into your narrow generalizations. Perhaps some prefer riding a bicycle around their local area on the weekends. Driving is not a passion for all, so be it. Maybe they are more interested in other activities. Who's to say. It hardly makes them a bunch of nit-wits for not driving around all day Saturday. Have you done an in depth study on clueless point A to B drivers weekend activities? Are they the ones riding the tail of the car in front of them while doing 10 or 20 over the speed limit. Or having a juvenile cursing rant because someone isn't speeding as fast as they are and happens for the moment to be in their way, making them have to slow down. I have more problems with the aggressive driver that thinks its his own personal race track/highway and sees everyone else on the road as well beneath him in skill and intelligence.
Who are you? Do something worthy of my hate and then we'll talk. Basic cars like that you speak of are "appliances". Like Camrys and Accords and so on..... They are meant for the "sheep" Basic, affordable and reliable transportation. When someone says "sheep". It's just that you are a part of the vast majority and manufacturers cater to you. As a result, less and less enthusiastic vehicles are around because of people like you. This is why RWD, manual transmissions and convertibles just to name a few things are not as common. Basic, FWD, automatic snoozebox is what people like you want and because you are the majority that's what the manufacturers will make. The problem also is that they push these snoozeboxes down the throats of enthusiasts and hence the pushback.
There are more enthusiast cars available today than ever. Today's V6 Accord is faster than a Ferrari 308. Is it as visceral? No. But it costs less to buy and a heck of a lot less to own.
Just because most sedans are FWD today doesn't mean we don't have great choices. The truth is that the RWD cars of 20 years ago were mostly crap. They would have been no better or worse if they were FWD, just would have more interior room with FWD.
I have no problem with people that want transportation or appliance cars. It bothers me more that millions of people drink Bud Light and Coors instead of enthusiast beers.
This is directed to you enthusiasts out there. I've been reading a lot of car websites lately. When I get to the comments sections, I see a great deal of derision of people who honestly just want a well-made, decent, reliable vehicle to get where they want to go.
Words like "sheep" and "brainwashed" and "appliance" are thrown around quite a bit, as if being extremely practical and frugal in the choice of a vehicle is a bad thing.
I can respect people who place more value on styling, high-performance and handling, fun-to-drive etc. I get it. I really do.
For me, however, my car is not a love affair. It's a means to an end. I don't need it to give me thrills running up my leg. I just want to have a reasonable assurance that it will work and that I won't spend much time or money in the shop beyond the basic maintenance. Is that such a terrible thing?
how can i hate you when i dont even know you? when i recommend a car to someone, it is based on what they want, not what i think they should get. someone says they want a reliable car that is comfortable, and cheap, i usually suggest something like a gen 3 taurus or something similar. if that person chooses not to take my recommendation, that is up to them, its no skin off my nose.
my next car will likely be a 98-04 crown vic or grand marquis.
i definitely dont agree with this one bit. my car is for getting from point A to point B. i dont care about it other than that. im an excellent driver and i primarily base it on my experience. i drive a lot. when i drive during regular commuting hours, i feel most people are good drivers because they drive a lot.
Most of the time it's simply bad habits that are reinforced through repetition. Sorry, but simply mananging to navigate to your destination within the law and without crashing does not make one a "good" driver. And that's really the only metric you have to go by, unless you've actually tested/pushed your skill level. In order to be a truly good driver, you have to be one with your car, much like a truly good horseman is one with their mount. You have to be in tune with your car and what every part does, and if it's working as good as it could be. An enthusiast driver tends to know this stuff, whereas the average appliance driver does not. THAT'S the part about being clueless. For example, you don't know what your swaybars are doing, you don't know what your treadblocks on your tires are doing as you turn and how they affect total grip and how close or far you are from losing grip in every condition. At any given moment you could be either on the ragged edge of being out of control or miles away from being out of control and you wouldn't know the difference, because it would feel the same to you, due to not caring to take the time to know.
(Now, to be fair, there are crap enthusiast drivers, too. They care, but they have no skills to back it up)
If you don't care about what's usually the second largest purchase a person makes, what does that really say about you?
Simply put, not caring makes you traffic. And not caring makes you the reason for lowest common denominator lawmaking that in effect punishes those that do care about driving and their cars. Which is why the enthusiast press and commentary usually looks down on most appliance car drivers.
Now, mind you in this AND the last post, I did specifically say MOST, not ALL. if you don't fit in this category, then the post is not aimed at you. But in the last 40 years, this is what I've noticed about the average point A to point B appliance car driver.
I only used the word "hate" to attract attention to the thread. Please don't make too much of that particular word. Maybe "look down on" would have been better.
I guess they really frown on those of us that have well running PAID For older "appliances!!
Most of the time it's simply bad habits that are reinforced through repetition. Sorry, but simply mananging to navigate to your destination within the law and without crashing does not make one a "good" driver. And that's really the only metric you have to go by, unless you've actually tested/pushed your skill level. In order to be a truly good driver, you have to be one with your car, much like a truly good horseman is one with their mount. You have to be in tune with your car and what every part does, and if it's working as good as it could be. An enthusiast driver tends to know this stuff, whereas the average appliance driver does not. THAT'S the part about being clueless. For example, you don't know what your swaybars are doing, you don't know what your treadblocks on your tires are doing as you turn and how they affect total grip and how close or far you are from losing grip in every condition. At any given moment you could be either on the ragged edge of being out of control or miles away from being out of control and you wouldn't know the difference, because it would feel the same to you, due to not caring to take the time to know.
(Now, to be fair, there are crap enthusiast drivers, too. They care, but they have no skills to back it up)
If you don't care about what's usually the second largest purchase a person makes, what does that really say about you?
Simply put, not caring makes you traffic. And not caring makes you the reason for lowest common denominator lawmaking that in effect punishes those that do care about driving and their cars. Which is why the enthusiast press and commentary usually looks down on most appliance car drivers.
Now, mind you in this AND the last post, I did specifically say MOST, not ALL. if you don't fit in this category, then the post is not aimed at you. But in the last 40 years, this is what I've noticed about the average point A to point B appliance car driver.
haha i dont think you have to be one with the car to be a good driver. i can also tell which drivers around me are bad drivers by how they drive, change speeds, change lanes, react to things going on, etc.
im not sure what it says about me that i dont care about my car which i guess according to you is a big purchase. to me, its just an expense of getting around. i think it says "he doesnt care about his car." but maybe to you it makes me a lamer or some other childish term.
There are more enthusiast cars available today than ever. Today's V6 Accord is faster than a Ferrari 308. Is it as visceral? No. But it costs less to buy and a heck of a lot less to own.
Just because most sedans are FWD today doesn't mean we don't have great choices. The truth is that the RWD cars of 20 years ago were mostly crap. They would have been no better or worse if they were FWD, just would have more interior room with FWD.
I have no problem with people that want transportation or appliance cars. It bothers me more that millions of people drink Bud Light and Coors instead of enthusiast beers.
Not true, enthusiast cars are still around the same amount today as they were back then but there are far more appliances then there were then. Comparing a V6 Accord to a Ferrari 308 is quite frankly retarded. A V6 Accord doesn't deserve to be in the same parking lot as a 308. Of course it is faster. Technology has improved and engine today are far more efficient than engines of the past.
I never said we don't have great choices. There are great choices for sedans that are out there and they aren't FWD (M5, Evo, Impreza WRX/WRX STI, S4, G37, TL SH-AWD, M3 need I go on?). but don't make it seem like FWD is some deity's gift to the world. It isn't and it was conceived on the idea of having more compact packaging meant that they were cheaper to build and more fuel efficient. It wasn't conceived with sportiness in mind. There is a reason most modern series are RWD only. Come talk to me when people are tripping over themselves to pay a six figure sum for a Honda Accord.
I don't generally care what other people drive. I have my pet peeves though, number one is all the soccer moms driving around in huge SUV's when their needs could be met with a regular sedan. A close second is people who buy huge trucks like F250 size and larger... and then NEVER TOW ANYTHING or use it for work. Some of them can't even park in their garage because it's too big.
Cars are meant to be used to get from point A to point B. That's what we ALL have cars for. The difference between enthusiasts and the general public is that enthusiasts want to be excited while doing it, not bored to death behind the wheel.
This is directed to you enthusiasts out there. I've been reading a lot of car websites lately. When I get to the comments sections, I see a great deal of derision of people who honestly just want a well-made, decent, reliable vehicle to get where they want to go.
Words like "sheep" and "brainwashed" and "appliance" are thrown around quite a bit, as if being extremely practical and frugal in the choice of a vehicle is a bad thing.
I can respect people who place more value on styling, high-performance and handling, fun-to-drive etc. I get it. I really do.
For me, however, my car is not a love affair. It's a means to an end. I don't need it to give me thrills running up my leg. I just want to have a reasonable assurance that it will work and that I won't spend much time or money in the shop beyond the basic maintenance. Is that such a terrible thing?
This forum like many others that deal with cars and such are overly populated by younger people that carry their brains in their pants with little to no tolerance for "ordinary" people that use cars as a simple transportation appliance.
Ignore them since their "day" is coming to make them "ordinary" people too!
My wife has a Prius and I have a WRX. These are polar opposites.
I love both. The Prius got 63 MPG the other day, while my WRX got 19. The WRX puts a smile on my face, the Prius is the workhorse and puts a smile in my wallet.
I personally couldn't see owning a Camry or Accord, although both are nice cars and almost as fast, if not faster in some respects than my WRX.
There just has to be something that attracts me to a car. The styling, sound of the engine, the power, the slick transmission, that sets the car apart; that gives it character.
I don't berate those who have a "boring" car or browbeat someone who doesn't know how or when to fix their car, but being in the dark, of what is for most people their second biggest purchase (second to a home), just doesn't seem very smart.
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But in the last 40 years, this is what I've noticed about the average point A to point B appliance car driver.
I guess they really frown on those of us that have well running PAID For older "appliances!!
