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Apples and roast beef go great together, in my opinion. Actually, if said apples are baked, with brown sugar - then yes!
So it's actually more along the lines of comparing an orange to a tangerine? What's your point? Germany is a smaller country than the United States. The principle behind the autobahn is the same as the principle behind the Interstate highway system; both are limited-access highways with no stops or intersections, so comparing them makes perfect sense. As a matter of fact, Eisenhower got the idea from the German Autobahns. So then it IS a good idea to compare two completely different countries, their populace, their roads, and their vehicles?
It's not a "free-for-all" on the parts with no speed limit, either. You still must drive a speed appropriate for the conditions, signal every lane change, keep right except to pass, and keep a proper following distance from the car ahead of you; the same rules in force in "reasonable and prudent" states such as Montana and Nevada, when they had no speed limits. WHICH part of the Autobahn do you want? The part where the speed limit is 60 kph?
Are we comparing drivers here or highways? Yes.
So, what you're saying is that the Autobahn is built better. Why should we not emulate that? Are you willing to help pay for it, by paying almost $2,000 for your drivers license?
I don't know how many rusted out Saturns you've seen, but at least on the popular S-series, you don't tend to see much rust. I can't speak for the Corollas, however. Never been UNDER a Saturn, have you?
Is that the best you can come up with? We should dismiss the idea outright because of who came up with it? I suppose we should also throw the U.S. constitution, and all the ideas therein, out the window because the founders of this country owned slaves, right? So you ARE for using slave and/or POW Labor for improving our Interstate system?
Attitudes like this will doom the United States to failure as a nation. We should always be looking at ways to improve what we have. Recognizing that other people (nations, societies) have good ideas from time to time is one way we can make improvements to our quality of life. If an idea is to be rejected or accepted, it should be so based solely on its merits or defects. The identity of the person who came up with the idea is of no relevance to the discussion. Hyperbole notwithstanding, let's at least let the comparisons and discussions be intelligent and relevant. These autobahn/interstate opines are as absurd as comparing Norway's healthcare system to ours.
First the Autobahn wasn't Hitler's idea, the first phase of construction began in 1929 the stretch between Cologne and Bonn opened in 1932 and work was halted at the onset of WWII. The Holocaust didn't begin until 1941. So you should perhaps stop playing the Holocaust card because it isn't in this deck.
First the Autobahn wasn't Hitler's idea, the first phase of construction began in 1929 the stretch between Cologne and Bonn opened in 1932 and work was halted at the onset of WWII. The Holocaust didn't begin until 1941. So you should perhaps stop playing the Holocaust card because it isn't in this deck.
Did I CLAIM that it was Hitler's idea? No, I didn't. Did I CLAIM that Hitler began work on the Autobahn? No, I didn't.
Did Hitler use POW Labor, and conscript incarcerated Jews into working on the Autobahn (as I said)? YES.
Perhaps you should READ before trying to condescend.
Let me be straight-up blunt: Let's knock of all these STUPID comparisons and complaints about how the German Autobahn is so superior to the US Interstate System, and thus should be copied, and we should eliminate our speed limits. All such comparisons & complaints are utterly absurd, and should be abandoned immediately.
YOU ARE COMPARING APPLES & ORANGES. Actually, more like apples & roast beef.
First of all, the German Autobahn is only 17% of the total miles/kilometers of the US Interstate System. That makes any side-by-side cost comparisons absurd. Or any other comparisons.
Second, speed limits on MOST of the Autobohn are strictly enforced. Over half of the Autobahn has speed limits. It is not a "free-for-all."
Third, Germans have to be older to get their drivers' licenses, and pay approximately $1500 for them. Far fewer Germans, per capita, drive than do Americans. And the requirements much more strict.
Fourth, the thickness of the Autobahn is double that of American Interstate Highways, and the Autobahn is far more expensive to maintain.
Fifth, the vehicles that travel the Autobahn are not rusted-out Saturns & Corollas.
Finally, the expansion of the Autobahn was the love-child of Adolf Hitler & the Nazis, and a great deal of the work was borne by prisoners of war & soon-to-be-exterminated Jews. Is that REALLY what we want to celebrate and emulate?
So... Can we just SHUT UP about how the Autobahn is a speed-limit-free circus that should be emulated by the United States? And if we can't shut up about that, why not broaden out the argument to include space travel in our comparisons?
So you make a thread whinging about people daring to compare inferior American highways to the superior German autobahn in which you then proceed to compare the inferior American highways to the superior German autobahn. Interesting. Not much to add, besides the obvious that you lost your own argument per Godwin's law in your own first post in quite impressive fashion. Nonetheless, I agree with both your major points that (A) The autobahn is a better constructed system and (B) German drivers are in general better than American drivers.
Yes and no. In the US, the threshold of knowledge, skill and maturity to obtain a driver's license is famously low. And nearly everyone drives, because nearly everyone has to. In Europe, licensing standards are more stringent, technical inspections of vehicle road-worthiness are much more stringent, fewer people drive, and driving is something of a hobby or exclusive privilege, rather than a basic necessity. I agree with all of these points.
However...
Autobahn traffic lanes tend to be narrow than in the US. Curves are often tighter, and grades (slopes) steeper. Shoulders and medians tend to be narrower. Many, many cars plying German roads are sub-100 hp diesels. They cling to the right lane. In many cases, American highways are actually safer from the viewpoint of offering more room and not requiring the driver to make as many course-corrections... not in urban corridors of course, or in Appalachia, but in our vast rural expanses.
In fact, unlike Germany, the US has enormous swaths of land with very low population, on level grade, with cheap land and plenty of lateral room in case that a vehicle veers off of the highway at high speed. Our drivers are certainly less competent and less disciplined than in Germany, but driving is so much easier here. I don't think that we'll ever attain the stringent lane-discipline in the US that's typical of Germany, but neither do I think that this is necessary.
The real impediment to offering stretches of speed-unlimited highways in the US is our fragmented system of vehicle and driver safety enforcement. There's just too much variability from state to state. If we had a national vehicle inspection program and a national driver licensing system, much of the systematization enabling Germany's autobahn system could be adopted here. But it ain't gonna happen given American kneejerk distaste for national standards.
Let me be straight-up blunt: Let's knock of all these STUPID comparisons and complaints about how the German Autobahn is so superior to the US Interstate System, and thus should be copied, and we should eliminate our speed limits. All such comparisons & complaints are utterly absurd, and should be abandoned immediately.
YOU ARE COMPARING APPLES & ORANGES. Actually, more like apples & roast beef.
First of all, the German Autobahn is only 17% of the total miles/kilometers of the US Interstate System. That makes any side-by-side cost comparisons absurd. Or any other comparisons.
Second, speed limits on MOST of the Autobohn are strictly enforced. Over half of the Autobahn has speed limits. It is not a "free-for-all."
Third, Germans have to be older to get their drivers' licenses, and pay approximately $1500 for them. Far fewer Germans, per capita, drive than do Americans. And the requirements much more strict.
Fourth, the thickness of the Autobahn is double that of American Interstate Highways, and the Autobahn is far more expensive to maintain.
Fifth, the vehicles that travel the Autobahn are not rusted-out Saturns & Corollas.
Finally, the expansion of the Autobahn was the love-child of Adolf Hitler & the Nazis, and a great deal of the work was borne by prisoners of war & soon-to-be-exterminated Jews. Is that REALLY what we want to celebrate and emulate?
So... Can we just SHUT UP about how the Autobahn is a speed-limit-free circus that should be emulated by the United States? And if we can't shut up about that, why not broaden out the argument to include space travel in our comparisons?
I'd like to add that I strongly suspect that the people who are most guilty of this are the ones that most likely wouldn't be allowed to have a driver's license in Germany without serious remedial training and attitude adjustment.
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I can't speak for the Corollas, however.
Is that the best you can come up with? We should dismiss the idea outright because of who came up with it? I suppose we should also throw the U.S. constitution, and all the ideas therein, out the window because the founders of this country owned slaves, right?
