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I was told otherwise in another post. They mentioned the bleeder screw and said burping this particular car, or any such car with a bleeder screw, was not necessary. I hope that's true, because burping it seems like a real aggravating pain-in-the-butt thing to do. In my mind, if I've added coolant, that's enough, the car ought to be able to figure it out from there and not be so freaking stinking nit-picky. The laws of physics, if that's what's at play, really get on my nerves sometimes. (You should hear me grumble when I move furniture around about how furniture ought to weigh no more than 3 lbs and STILL be durable ANYWAY.)
But then, that's why I'm not a mechanic. Regardless, once it's had its 24 hours to "set" as the can said I should give it time to do, I'll go for a test run and if it starts acting up, I may well tow it to a shop and ask them what is going on.
Well, take it for what it's worth but in my personal experience I've only been able to remove air from a cooling system in one of two ways.
1.) Burp the system by removing the radiator cap and allowing the engine to run and work the air out. This may require driving it a bit and rechecking for a while.
2.) Using a pressurized system to remove the air and replace it with coolant (this is more common on closed systems like a diesel)
What you need to do is take it somewhere that can pressure test your cooling system. If they put pressure on the system and it leaks down over a given period of time, and you see no leaks around the outside of the engine, then it is leaking into the engine and you have head gasket/head failure.
Probably because I don't want the shop to check something out and tell me that I need $650 worth of work and then I'm like "no, thanks" and this shop is WAY on the other side of town. They'll check it for free, and maybe I don't want to "use" them that way if I go in there knowing I won't be able to have any serious work done anyway. Ones which are close-by, they sometimes take a week to get around to be able to check anything out. I guess I don't want to bother them knowing that I probably won't be able to have them do anything anyway. However, if this K&W Block Sealer doesn't do anything, I just might go that route--I mean, as of right now, it cranks and it drives short distances, it's not GONE GONE. If it can be saved for not a huge amount of money, it might be worthwhile.
If it is just a leak, it bothers me that I can't see the freaking thing. I've had it idling at the home and I was looking all over the place and I couldn't find one, I couldn't see any water puddles underneath either. Yet, somehow, all of the water was emptying its way out of there. I was like "where, where, where is that leak? Why can't I see it?" I guess it's just burning it off in the engine, but would it really burn through the entire radiator's worth of coolant in barely 10-odd minutes, that fast? I put the K&W Block Sealer in there yesterday afternoon and it said to let it sit (with the radiator drain plug & cap removed) for 24 hours. This afternoon it will have been 24 hours, I'll go for a test run and see how it goes, expecting the worst but hoping against hope for the best.
Realize that this block sealer stuff is not a true permanent fix. At least I have never heard of it being so.
You need to decide if the rest of the car is worth it to you to either do , or have done, the head gasket job. If you are lucky, it's just the gasket. Less lucky, the head is cracked. Snake Eyes, it's a cracked block. Cracked block is pretty rare anymore though, unless you did something really stupid like get the engine really hot, boil off most of the coolant, and then refill with cold water.
Even if you get success with the block sealer, I would not trust the car for long trips, simply because if you take it far from home, the tow home will cost a lot. AAA + is your friend, sign up for it.
IMHO either pull the head and see what's actually broke, and my money is on the head gasket, or sell the car as a mechanic's special with a disclosed failing head gasket and get something else to drive.
BTW I have experienced a head gasket failure on my Scirocco where it did indeed lose most of the water in the radiator in about 5 miles, and in this case very little coolant contamination in the motor oil. Of course a sample size of one event does not prove anything one way or the other.
All that said, do post up about how well or not the K&W Block Seal works for you.
If I keep my engine at the very lower-end of the temperature-gauge, it runs pretty good and burns little coolant. How did I do this...............I just pulled the thermostat out of the vehicle, simple solution.
Is this something I should try doing?
Latest
Once the 24 hours of letting the K&W Block Sealer had elapsed, I decided to bleed the system based on instructions from URGENT. Can't bleed cooling system! - R3VLimited Forums post #5, basically I elevated the car (I have hilly terrain), opened up the bleeder screw, added water until I saw a stream, closed it up, started the car, let it warm up, opened up the bleeder screw and added water, revved it to 2500 rpm, did the same thing, then I took off.
At first it was looking good, according to the instructions this should cause the heater to start blowing hot, and indeed it did, that heater was blowing hotter than I'd ever felt it blow. All was good for about 6 miles with the gauge hanging around 3/8ths, then the heater's air started becoming cooler, within 10 miles (4 miles more) it was hanging around 3/4 and/or flicking back to 1/2. I pulled over let it cool and the radiator was dry. I added more water, and went about 7 more miles, at that point it was pretty much staying around 3/4.
I pulled over and let it rest about 15 minutes, topped off everything as the radiator and the overflow both were dry. I made it about 7 miles before it first started showing any signs, although it made it further than the last time I tried. I pushed it about 3 more miles by this time it was starting to go all the way to H so I got off the road and let it rest about 10 minutes. I then filled it up with water and although I only had 2 more miles to go before I was home it started acting up a little that quickly and was almost out of water within those 2 miles.
It was discouraging, because during the first part it was blowing lots of hot air through the heater, way hotter than it has ever. Later, even after adding water, it never blew hot again, it was blowing cold air the entire rest of the journeys.
I do think I'm looking at a head gasket issue, this is my question--would that cause it to leak air into the system again? It seems that my shoving all of that air out at the beginning is why the heater was so hot at that point, what caused it to stop and to not resume even after I added water?
If it's a blown head gasket, I don't think it's worth spending $1000 for that. I got my Toyota Corolla for $1500 and for the most part it's been a reliable car with not much having to be repaired. I'd be more inclined to go that route.
Well, technically the system is not full of normal air, it's full of exhaust gases - but since air is 70% give or take nitrogen, and for the most part nitrogen does not react in an Otto-cycle engine, the gas in your cooling system is similar to air. Don't sniff it though. Your heater didn't come back after the first episode because it was full of exhaust gas, and you didn't bleed the system good enough to get it out. No biggie, if you did bleed it completely, the exhaust gas would have been right back in there. Now that I think of it, the system could be full of air, as the radiator cap is designed to hold pressure but *not* to hold vacuum. So as the engine sucked in your coolant, maybe air came in to backfill it. But this has no practical application - you almost certainly have a blown head gasket, and the fix will be done with a wrench, not a "potion" you pour into the radiator.
You need to price out a head gasket R&R with whatever mechanic you want to use. If you don't have a shop or at least a carport, me, I wouldn't want a mobile mechanic doing a head R&R out in the yard. Too much chance to drop a part or get dirt into the engine.
When the head comes off, it needs to go to a machine shop to be pressure checked, checked for gasket surface flatness, milled if needed, and new valve guide seals installed. So the head will be off at least a day or two. Me, I would not want the engine apart that long out in the yard. If the head turns out to be bad, I would recommend a used head from a yard over a "rebuilt" head from a parts store, because the used head will have all the valves already in it, and usually at least close to correct lash adjustment. The rebuilt head will have new guides and valve seats, but will be bare and need you to put all the valves and cam from the old head into it, a lot of work for little benefit, as the guides and seats in modern Japanese cars anyway seldom wear enough to worry about.
You might want to post up in your local forum (where are you anyway?) and find some recommendations for a shop. You should probably spring for a tow to the shop, clearly this car is only marginally drive-able. There is no cheap or easy way to do the head gasket repair, has to be done right, or the new gasket will fail again soon.
Didn't much think that Block Seal would work in this situation. It may work in others.
Once the 24 hours of letting the K&W Block Sealer had elapsed, I decided to bleed the system based on instructions from URGENT. Can't bleed cooling system! - R3VLimited Forums post #5, basically I elevated the car (I have hilly terrain), opened up the bleeder screw, added water until I saw a stream, closed it up, started the car, let it warm up, opened up the bleeder screw and added water, revved it to 2500 rpm, did the same thing, then I took off.
At first it was looking good, according to the instructions this should cause the heater to start blowing hot, and indeed it did, that heater was blowing hotter than I'd ever felt it blow. All was good for about 6 miles with the gauge hanging around 3/8ths, then the heater's air started becoming cooler, within 10 miles (4 miles more) it was hanging around 3/4 and/or flicking back to 1/2. I pulled over let it cool and the radiator was dry. I added more water, and went about 7 more miles, at that point it was pretty much staying around 3/4.
I pulled over and let it rest about 15 minutes, topped off everything as the radiator and the overflow both were dry. I made it about 7 miles before it first started showing any signs, although it made it further than the last time I tried. I pushed it about 3 more miles by this time it was starting to go all the way to H so I got off the road and let it rest about 10 minutes. I then filled it up with water and although I only had 2 more miles to go before I was home it started acting up a little that quickly and was almost out of water within those 2 miles.
It was discouraging, because during the first part it was blowing lots of hot air through the heater, way hotter than it has ever. Later, even after adding water, it never blew hot again, it was blowing cold air the entire rest of the journeys.
I do think I'm looking at a head gasket issue, this is my question--would that cause it to leak air into the system again? It seems that my shoving all of that air out at the beginning is why the heater was so hot at that point, what caused it to stop and to not resume even after I added water?
If it's a blown head gasket, I don't think it's worth spending $1000 for that. I got my Toyota Corolla for $1500 and for the most part it's been a reliable car with not much having to be repaired. I'd be more inclined to go that route.
With a bad head-gasket, the engine can either put exhaust-gases into the cooling-system, or pull coolant out of the cooling-system, or it can do both.
If you are going to try the repair-in-a-bottle.......read and follow the instructions to the T. And yes, the
repair-in-a-bottle stuff can work......it can also not work and create even more problems (like a clogged radiator).
Once the 24 hours of letting the K&W Block Sealer had elapsed, I decided to bleed the system based on instructions from URGENT. Can't bleed cooling system! - R3VLimited Forums post #5, basically I elevated the car (I have hilly terrain), opened up the bleeder screw, added water until I saw a stream, closed it up, started the car, let it warm up, opened up the bleeder screw and added water, revved it to 2500 rpm, did the same thing, then I took off.
At first it was looking good, according to the instructions this should cause the heater to start blowing hot, and indeed it did, that heater was blowing hotter than I'd ever felt it blow. All was good for about 6 miles with the gauge hanging around 3/8ths, then the heater's air started becoming cooler, within 10 miles (4 miles more) it was hanging around 3/4 and/or flicking back to 1/2. I pulled over let it cool and the radiator was dry. I added more water, and went about 7 more miles, at that point it was pretty much staying around 3/4.
I pulled over and let it rest about 15 minutes, topped off everything as the radiator and the overflow both were dry. I made it about 7 miles before it first started showing any signs, although it made it further than the last time I tried. I pushed it about 3 more miles by this time it was starting to go all the way to H so I got off the road and let it rest about 10 minutes. I then filled it up with water and although I only had 2 more miles to go before I was home it started acting up a little that quickly and was almost out of water within those 2 miles.
It was discouraging, because during the first part it was blowing lots of hot air through the heater, way hotter than it has ever. Later, even after adding water, it never blew hot again, it was blowing cold air the entire rest of the journeys.
I do think I'm looking at a head gasket issue, this is my question--would that cause it to leak air into the system again? It seems that my shoving all of that air out at the beginning is why the heater was so hot at that point, what caused it to stop and to not resume even after I added water?
If it's a blown head gasket, I don't think it's worth spending $1000 for that. I got my Toyota Corolla for $1500 and for the most part it's been a reliable car with not much having to be repaired. I'd be more inclined to go that route.
I would try removing the thermostat if the block-sealer did not fix things.
Definitely sounds like a head gasket. I'll repeat my previous advice. Take the car to a mechanic who can pressure test your cooling system instead of fooling around with it and wasting hours upon hours of time and money in wasted coolant.
That test will provide the answer to the problem in less than an hour (and for little expense). Then determine how you plan to get it repaired. If you are lucky it will just be a gasket and a fairly cheap fix (mill the head back flat and install a new gasket). If you keep rolling the dice and driving it you could end up overheating the engine and warping or cracking a head (if it hasn't already happened) and then your cost will increase exponentially.
Before you panic over the cost of $1,000 give or take, here's some perspective for you. My 08 F250 had head studs installed due to blown head gaskets before I got it. They DIDN'T mill the heads flat. When I bought it and the head gasket blew again, it warped and cracked the mating surface on the block. Cost to fix it? $15,000
Removed Thermostat, Seems To Be Working, 1 Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul
I would try removing the thermostat if the block-sealer did not fix things.
As a last-ditch desperate measure, I did remove the thermostat. It seems to have fixed the problem--I went on a test run which involved about the same distance and speed (60-65 mph) as going to work, and it remained at 3/8 the entire time, never once even flirting with going above the mark.
Just maybe--YIPEE!!
I do realize this is not optimal long-term (I forget all the details, basically it's that a car shouldn't run "overcool" it's not optimal), but it is MUCH better than persistently running hot within 6-8 miles. In the reading I've done this is a "Band-Aid" solution that you try out if you've tried everything else and it still runs hot and (this is the case with me) you don't regard it as a car worth spending $1000 on for a new head gasket.
From what I've read about doing this, it seems to be kind of similar to running a car on plain water vs coolant (assuming it's not 20'F outside), long-term 50/50 coolant is the way to go because plain water can corrode the engine and water pump etc, but if you're in the middle of nowhere and your radiator is bone-dry then you don't forego plain water and insist on coolant, you use the water to keep the car alive until such time as you can get proper 50/50 coolant. This is sort of like that, I'm only going to be going 15 miles each way, I have no aspirations to go on long 2 or 4 hour out-of-town trips with this thing, at all, and if it can get me by for the next 2-odd months or so (we both now have our W2-s), that is all I can ask for. When it's cold outside and I now have no heat, I'll manage, it beats walking or waiting an hour for family to arrive and hear them grumble about how much their helping us out is taking a toll on them.
One question--if the engine does run hot, the gauge will reflect this, correct? I ask because I have observed that if a hose cracks or comes off it will give a false "good" reading in the 3/8ths range when in fact it's running hot as snot. I assume such is not the case here, if by chance it does go to running hot it will indicate it? (When I checked underneath the hood upon returning home, it seemed OK, no engine knock no hysterical steam all over the place etc).
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