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Old 03-17-2017, 05:12 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,109,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmyk72 View Post
I'd be pissed though if the state slaps an annual penalty on the car down the road.

A 4K pound Volt and a 4K pound gasoline powered sedan are going to do equal damage to the road. The average combined state and federal fuel tax might be 55 cents a gallon, the sedan might get 25MPG on average so if it travels 15K miles per year its is costing $360 in fuel taxes.

It's not a penalty, you're getting a discount.... You'd have to travel less than 9K miles with the car before it becomes a penalty.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
2,983 posts, read 3,098,586 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
A 4K pound Volt and a 4K pound gasoline powered sedan are going to do equal damage to the road. The average combined state and federal fuel tax might be 55 cents a gallon, the sedan might get 25MPG on average so if it travels 15K miles per year its is costing $360 in fuel taxes.


So what about a 3500 lb economy car getting 40 mpg, are you saying that they should get taxed more, too as they aren't paying their fair share of taxes? Right now, with fuel economy getting better, states are losing tax funds even without the 1% of EVs and cars like the Volt factored in. In fact, at that low a market penetration, EVs and cars like the Volt are barely a blip on the tax front, so penalizing them and singling them out is beyond petty and stupid.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
2,983 posts, read 3,098,586 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Vega View Post
In the LA area the electric company advertises to run your washer and dryer in the evening and turn the air conditioner down to save electricity. How are they going to charge up millions of cars.


Currently in California, they can charge at night while you are sleeping and the power plant doesn't have to ramp down, thus making it MORE efficient, as a study by Southern California Edison (the power company) determined. SCE found that half the fleet in California could be replaced by EVs tomorrow and not affect the grid at all. But the fact is, even at max production it would take 30 YEARS to replace even half of California's cars cars with electrics and it will be easy to upgrade the grid to handle it over 30 years.


People like you are simply ignorant of the facts, and worry based on nothing but speculation.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
2,983 posts, read 3,098,586 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
They are not "under attack. It's just that after all this time it's finally time to have the taxpayers quit subsidizing what are most frequently expensive toys. Best let the industry respond with vehicles people are willing to spend their own money on, rather than other people's money.

Taxpayers didn't pay a PENNY out of their pockets for the tax breaks on EVs any more than they pay for someone else's mortgage credit, child dependent credit, or home business credit, all of which I don't see you complaining about or trying to remove.
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Old 03-17-2017, 07:51 AM
 
15,804 posts, read 20,559,787 times
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I have no issue with EV vehicles, but all the credits in the world aren't going to get me to buy something I can't practically use in everyday life, nor has styling I am in love with.


WHere are the EV minivans, SUV's, pickup trucks? etc? The tech has been out for some time, but everytime I see a new EV hit the market, it's usually some tiny little compact I can barely fit myself, or a bag of mulch into.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:08 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,480 posts, read 60,707,289 times
Reputation: 61101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffer E38 View Post
Taxpayers didn't pay a PENNY out of their pockets for the tax breaks on EVs any more than they pay for someone else's mortgage credit, child dependent credit, or home business credit, all of which I don't see you complaining about or trying to remove.


And many people have framed those deductions as theft from society.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:13 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,609 posts, read 17,341,290 times
Reputation: 37378
Electric cars are going to die.

They cannot be manufactured without government subsidies to the manufacturer, and cannot be sold without more subsidies to the buyer.
We are almost to the point of "Obamacars" where a free one is provided if you cannot afford your own.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Sylmar, a part of Los Angeles
8,361 posts, read 6,452,070 times
Reputation: 17490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffer E38 View Post
Taxpayers didn't pay a PENNY out of their pockets for the tax breaks on EVs any more than they pay for someone else's mortgage credit, child dependent credit, or home business credit, all of which I don't see you complaining about or trying to remove.
Of coarse the taxpayers pay for tax breaks on EV's. The government has no money, all government money comes from taxpayers.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Podunk, IA
6,143 posts, read 5,269,012 times
Reputation: 7022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Electric cars are going to die.
The "USA" is not the world.
Automakers will either keep up with this technology or they can forget about selling cars globally.
If the largest states also say "there will be EVs", then there will be EVs here as well.

Any automaker that doesn't have a significant presence in at least two of the three big markets (USA, EU & China) will be in danger of getting swallowed up by one that is.

Last edited by eaton53; 03-17-2017 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,890,867 times
Reputation: 39453
EVs do not pay their share of expenses for upkeep of roads because most states fund their roads through sales tax on gasoline.

Thus, the States were paying twice for electric cars, once int he rebate, and again in the free use of roads (and arguably again through the federal tax rebate which in turn is funded by all taxpayers).

The have been subsidized for long enough. If they cannot get the price down enough to make EVs competitive without rebates by now, then they are simply not going to be competitive and will just be a novelty item for the wealthy.

However I think the MFGs can get the price down and can produce cheap EVs that do not need a subsidy. They just price them above market let the subsidy take the price down to market and make a little extra.

The reduction in sales could be caused by lots of things. Initially, all the people who want an EV will be waiting to buy them. Eventually you start to run out of people for whom they are practical and who want to pay the premium (even with a rebate) because the vehicle is neat, clean or whatever. There is not an unlimited market for these cars. I would like to have one in our family, but once we have one, we woudl not want any more because they cannot do a lot of things we need a car/vehicle to do. (like haul 4-7 people 2 giant dogs, a load of gravel or a couch, etc). So once we have one, the market is saturated as to our family. Obviously there will be a big initial burst of people buying them, then it will quickly drop off. They simlpy are not that practical for all that many people, and of the ones they are practical for, many just do not want them, or cannot afford them even with rebates.
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