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Why do they need to sell with no subsidy?
If Ford wanted to, they could sell 50K EVs with a $10K subsidy and use a few weeks worth of F150 profits to do it.
Tesla can't do that.
VW is almost certainly going use gasoline vehicle profits to sell EVs at the prices they're talking.
IMO, that Microbus EV they're going to do is going to be a big hit.
I doubt the microbus will be hit in North America the current VW Retro modern Beattle is now out of production and people have bad taste in their mouth from the terrible late 90's early 00's VW Eurovan's.
Plus that younger Generations will not be into paying a premium price for a Retro-modern van and the old hippies that grew up with them with the $$$ are too old to buy them in large numbers.
If they brought this out with the 2005 retro-mod Mustang, Retro Beattle and PT Cruisers were huge 10 to 15 years ago it might of worked
Not exactly. Currently the examples of EV’s we have today aren’t proving to be anymore reliable than their ICE counterparts. In theory maybe, but that’s not proving true so far.
I don’t think you’re aware but modern ICE’s don’t really require a lot of maintenance anymore. They’re starting to make transmissions as sealed units, timing belts are now timing chains with no replacement schedule, and oil changes are now pushing 10k miles intervals. Of the past 6 cars I’ve owned the majority of maintenance cost has been tires the rest is negligible.
I'd consider myself slightly more aware than your impression. I have 300K miles on a modern ICE that has had 15K mile OCI, but timing chains do not last forever nor are without their problems, and the current popular direct injection engine designs build up quite a bit of carbon over 60K-100K miles. Many of these things will not be much of an issue for the average owner since they tend to ditch their cars before the 10 year/100K mile mark hence the marketing push by dealers calling maintenance items "lifetime" (the life of the average ownership). However, current ICE still has a bunch of moving parts and complex systems with sensors, relays, and solenoids...the latter 3 tend to have more problems than their mechanical counterparts.
As for EVs being less reliable, I just don't see it. I guess it depends on how you want to define reliable. From what I understand most complaints logged by JD Power and Consumer Reports tend to deal with wind/road noise, accessory malfunction, and squeaks/rattles and have much less to do with powertrain/drivetrain issues. That goes for both EVs and ICE. In fact, early reviews for just about all EVs were complaints about wind noise which was discovered to be no worse that ICE cars, but the noise is more noticeable without the droning white noise of a running engine. I could be wrong, but I'm just not seeing unreliable EVs other than the infamous Tesla glitches (motorized door handles, battery fires, and early production drive units).
I've been blessed with never having a car breakdown on me over my collective 460K miles of driving and the majority expense of car maintenance for me has also been tires. I've never had a turbo blow, clutch fail, timing belt/chain break, or compression issue....but I know several people who have.
The biggest issue is battery degradation. A battery will degrade over time and you can only replace the entire battery. An engine can degrade over time, but you only need to replace the part that degraded at far less cost. In other words it's pretty much a wash.
Again it doesn't seem like you read your own article they said nothing of the battery reliability, but the features such as Falcon Doors. In the same article CR praised the Tesla model S85d for being the best car they had ever reviewed.
You know GM had a EV car back in the 90’s called the EV1 1996–1999 only sold in California but never took off people didn’t buy enough of them. And as far as natural gas vehicles hers a link to tell you about them. https://www.compare.com/auto-insuran...vehicles-guide
So everyone thinks this is GM first rodeo with EV cars but in reality they have been doing it since the 90’s.
Those were lease cars. Not for purchase. They destroyed them. Many people didn’t want to surrender their cars they grew to love.
Exactly. Tesla's been given an unfair shake because of the archaic business model in place, and it's really limited adoption and exposure of their cars. A lot of people have never even seen a Tesla in the flesh, much less driven one, unless you live in an affluent area or happen to live where they have one of their stores.
Exactly totally agree, but in California Tesla is huge half of all their cars are sold here.
It's crazy we've went from the america that built the first interstate system in the world to a super afraid, overly pessimistic bunch you can pretty much sum up the biggest challenges we will face as a country in the near future on these comments.
Overall, I believe EVs will be more reliable as EVs can't simply be on par to win public acceptance, they have to outperform every other car.
Exactly totally agree, but in California Tesla is huge half of all their cars are sold here.
It's crazy we've went from the america that built the first interstate system in the world to a super afraid, overly pessimistic bunch you can pretty much sum up the biggest challenges we will face as a country in the near future on these comments.
Overall, I believe EVs will be more reliable as EVs can't simply be on par to win public acceptance, they have to outperform every other car.
It was actually the Germans that built the first interstate system.
This thread is about reliability of EV’s, their acceptance is an entirely different subject. If reliability was all people were after all cars in the US would be Toyota’s and Honda’s.
Again it doesn't seem like you read your own article they said nothing of the battery reliability, but the features such as Falcon Doors. In the same article CR praised the Tesla model S85d for being the best car they had ever reviewed.
Pretty much all reliability surveys come down to secondary features. If you’re just looking for powertrain failures, even the most unreliable cars fare pretty well. In general ICE’s on average are lasting longer than at anytime in history so the reliability goal is a moving target.
Reliability in general is just one small aspect of car ownership, the other being the cost when the parts do fail. On an ICE, an engine failure doesn’t mean you have to replace the entire engine, while EVs are made up of expensive disposable components that are dependent on dealership labor rates.
Pretty much all reliability surveys come down to secondary features. If you’re just looking for powertrain failures, even the most unreliable cars fare pretty well. In general ICE’s on average are lasting longer than at anytime in history so the reliability goal is a moving target.
Reliability in general is just one small aspect of car ownership, the other being the cost when the parts do fail. On an ICE, an engine failure doesn’t mean you have to replace the entire engine, while EVs are made up of expensive disposable components that are dependent on dealership labor rates.
The comment I was replying to was referring to battery degradation as the biggest problem with reliability for EVs, the post did not allude to secondary parts as the CR survey did.
Of course they are expensive now It's a fairly new technology I don't get the logic assuming that Evs right off the bat should be cheaper than ICE vehicles logically speaking it just make sense for it to be expensive upfront.
The case stands EVs will probably be more reliable not to mention the technology available to the driver to self diagnose any problem with the vehicle. Or maybe even just update the vehicle when a problem arises.
It was actually the Germans that built the first interstate system.
This thread is about reliability of EV’s, their acceptance is an entirely different subject. If reliability was all people were after all cars in the US would be Toyota’s and Honda’s.
You're right, but the statement still stands after reading the first few pages of this thread. Most vehicle now in days are pretty reliable not just Toyota or Honda.
The comment I was replying to was referring to battery degradation as the biggest problem with reliability for EVs, the post did not allude to secondary parts as the CR survey did.
Of course they are expensive now It's a fairly new technology I don't get the logic assuming that Evs right off the bat should be cheaper than ICE vehicles logically speaking it just make sense for it to be expensive upfront.
The case stands EVs will probably be more reliable not to mention the technology available to the driver to self diagnose any problem with the vehicle. Or maybe even just update the vehicle when a problem arises.
The technology to self diagnose is both already available and pretty much useless. Any modern car today will give you some kind of warning that something isn’t right followed promptly by a message to see your dealer to do something about it. Some will even give you a prompt to schedule an appointment. If an EV has some kind of failure what is the owner supposed to do with that information other than take it to the shop? Just swap out a battery pack on the side of the road?
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