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Perception is NOT reality, it often comes from those that are ill informed spreading that information to others.
BTW - false comparison, many drive SUVs for a lot of reasons other than just "get by" - they need the room sometimes, they like the better view, they are easier to get in and out of, they feel more protected, etc. Personally I have an SUV because of an injury, I sometimes have an issue with getting in and out of a car.
How many Americans buy SUVs because of an injury, versus people who just want a larger vehicle because it’s fashionable? I’ll bet it’s 99% the latter.
Similarly, EVs. It’s a fad, not a necessity. In 4-5 years, hydrogen will be all the rage.
No way a homeowner is installing a 50 amp circuit for just $60.
Assuming there is an open circuit breaker slot, the cost of the breaker and running 6 gauge copper wire from circuit panel, to a newly install 50amp box and outlet. And a licensed electrician is charging how much for this?
It’s simply an added cost but don’t lie about it. Nobody is going to “not go EV” on this but be up front on the costs to inform readers on the actual costs. The thread title is the “total cost of an electric vehicle”.
Mine cost $150 all in. I used it for almost a year.
I only later spent $2000 for the dedicated charger and panel upgrade because my power company’s program gave me back $1500, and a state tax rebate, and discounted charging from here on out.
Try as you might, claiming EV cost more to fuel is downright ridiculous. Just know that we’re laughing at you.
It costs me about $900-1000 to drive 25,000 +/- miles annually. I could install an extra charger and still be way ahead of someone fueling that number of miles with gas.
From EIA.gov, here are the 2021 rates for the top 14 states & D.C.:
The website you cite, www.eia.gov, is horribly out of date.
For example, it lists "Nevada's Average Retail Price (cents/kWh) is 8.58. That might have been true a decade ago, but current average retail rates in the main population center of Las Vegas is nearly double that. The electric utility, Southern Nevada Energy (part of Berkshire Hathaway) has been retiring its coal powered generation plants (only one left to go) and that conversion is not free. Nevada, because of numerous utility-scale solar electric arrays, has the highest price per kWh of all mountain states (only California is higher).
This summer, residents have opened their electric bill envelopes, expecting a bill of $200 or $300 only to see bills of $600, $800, even $1000 for the month of August.
Add to that EV charging-at-home costs. A Tesla Model & driven about 12,000 miles/year will cost over $600 /year in added electricity charges, a local solar panel company calculates.
Last edited by moguldreamer; 09-04-2023 at 10:03 AM..
More bad info - EVs charge during the night because with an EV, you get a much lower rate than the average shown to encourage that ... In NV, my EV rate is $0.05 - costs under $5 to fill for 300 miles - that is about the cost of 1 gallon of gas there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
You are right that I neglected the EV rate plans which discount the cost of recharging overnight (after midnight). These discounted rates make EV usage competitive with current gasoline prices.
Signing up for night time lower electricity rates comes at a steep price - much, much higher electricity rates in the daytime which is when I use most of my electricity here in Nevada.
I have a larger custom home & designed in energy efficient attributes for example, the exterior paint is actually a high ceramic content coating that reflects most infrared energy from the sun, and I have 7 separate HVACs operating 10 separate zones so I only cool the portions of the house actively being used, and I have 12 kW of solar panels that are owned rather than leased. And I have a plug-in hybrid. With that my electric bill still was over $600 last month. My solar company still says to stay on my current grandfathered rate plan.
No way a homeowner is installing a 50 amp circuit for just $60.
Assuming there is an open circuit breaker slot, the cost of the breaker and running 6 gauge copper wire from circuit panel, to a newly install 50amp box and outlet. And a licensed electrician is charging how much for this?
It’s simply an added cost but don’t lie about it. Nobody is going to “not go EV” on this but be up front on the costs to inform readers on the actual costs. The thread title is the “total cost of an electric vehicle”.
Why do you go to accusations of lying - it cost me just under $60. The plug is less than 2 feet from the panel and was done maybe 7 years ago. Some utilities will pay to install these also.
How many Americans buy SUVs because of an injury, versus people who just want a larger vehicle because it’s fashionable? I’ll bet it’s 99% the latter.
Similarly, EVs. It’s a fad, not a necessity. In 4-5 years, hydrogen will be all the rage.
Your bets seem badly thought out.
About a fifth of global new vehicle sales in the *world* were plug-ins in June.
Hydrogen for light duty vehicles is incredibly silly as an idea for various reasons. The energy loss for going from feedstock to hydrogen to fuel cell is enormous. This also shows up in hydrogen per mile cost efficiency awful. Hydrogen fueling stations are incredibly expensive to both set up and to operate, and meanwhile there is no built in advantage akin to the home and other places delivery of "fuel" that eleectric plug-in vehicles have.
Signing up for night time lower electricity rates comes at a steep price - much, much higher electricity rates in the daytime which is when I use most of my electricity here in Nevada.
I have a larger custom home & designed in energy efficient attributes for example, the exterior paint is actually a high ceramic content coating that reflects most infrared energy from the sun, and I have 7 separate HVACs operating 10 separate zones so I only cool the portions of the house actively being used, and I have 12 kW of solar panels that are owned rather than leased. And I have a plug-in hybrid. With that my electric bill still was over $600 last month. My solar company still says to stay on my current grandfathered rate plan.
In LV the TOU rates are the exact same with just a reduction for the EV period so most of it is not any difference than without EV. The Peak rate corresponds roughly to the peak Solar generation period so with solar, the peak is a non-issue if you have sufficient solar. The peak only lasts for 6 hours on weekdays for 4 months - about 390 hours in a year. If you pay the peak, you pay just over 2x the standard rate for that 4% of the year, in return pay about 2/3 the standard rate the other 96% of the hours in the year. The break for TOU may be more than you think, especially with solar. I have lots of solar and never have had to pay the peak rate. The break for EVs currently is not very much though, when I started on the EV rate there, the EV rate break was much more substantial.
In LV, I have a larger single story home with a very large system, 22 Kw of solar (a little too big - put in by the previous owner), 5 mostly older HVAC systems (replaced one just last week) and charge EVs. I am also on a grandfathered electric rate but normally run a credit so mostly pay monthly fees and taxes - maybe $15/mo.
In San Diego there is a huge difference of about $0.20/kw overnight for the EV rate - saves a lot because that is when we run stuff like pool cleaning cycle, dishwasher, other heavy use if possible and of course charging cars. The EV rate also used to save more across the board, not just at night. I know one guy that has a home probably similar to yours (in Rancho Santa Fe) that bought a cheap EV primarily to qualify for the EV electric rate in SD. Like LV, the TOU rate is essentially the same now other than the EV part at night.
In SD, I have a similar sized 2 story home, no solar with 2 HVAC systems that are rarely run and again EVs - electric bill of about $500/mo even with significantly higher rates (more peak hours and almost 3x higher peak rate) because of the EV rate breaks.
I'm not going to read through this whole thread, but the biggest catch to electric cars is having a level 2 car charger installed in your garage.
If you have modern electrical and an attached garage, it won't be too costly. If you have old electrical and a detached garage, it could get pricey. If you end up moving houses somewhat frequently and have to keep installing 220V circuits in every garage, the math goes sideways.
Not disagreeing but pointing out that it cost me about $1K to run a 220V line to my garage in order to charge my Tesla and I've saved multiple thousands on fuel/energy which more than covers that cost.
Not disagreeing but pointing out that it cost me about $1K to run a 220V line to my garage in order to charge my Tesla and I've saved multiple thousands on fuel/energy which more than covers that cost.
Yeah. It cost $1400.00 for me. I had it run in the walls and use a Tesla wall charger. My garage is finished and I epoxied the floors, so I wanted it neat and clean.
Regarding tou rates I cannot seem to find much of a discount with National Grid in my area for charging off peak. They seem to require specific chargers, a new meter, and a plan that requires you to use the more demanding appliances over night. On their website they state you may save up to $100 annually. I may be reading this wrong but that seems like a lot of effort for little benefit. Regardless, I still charge overnight.
Yeah. It cost $1400.00 for me. I had it run in the walls and use a Tesla wall charger. My garage is finished and I epoxied the floors, so I wanted it neat and clean.
Regarding tou rates I cannot seem to find much of a discount with National Grid in my area for charging off peak. They seem to require specific chargers, a new meter, and a plan that requires you to use the more demanding appliances over night. On their website they state you may save up to $100 annually. I may be reading this wrong but that seems like a lot of effort for little benefit. Regardless, I still charge overnight.
My panel was on the wall shared with the garage so the EV wall plug is about a foot below on the other side of the wall - literally just over a foot of wire. Also a Tesla wall charger is not needed - the mobile charger cord works fine. According to the data, I saved $340 driving the Model X and DW saved $42 driving her Model 3 in August so easily pays back any reasonable cost to instal the 50 amp plug.
As far as TOU - there are many different plans all over the country but most should not require a seperate meter or any type of charger - both our LEAF and Tesla have the ability to set scheduled charging time. Just plug it in and it starts charging at the specified time. The EV rate saves me about $100/mo just for charging and probably another $60-100/mo by moving other use to overnight.
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