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Interesting to note that in the current winter tire tests (Nov ConsumerReports), they mention that several of the "top" rated snow tires performed as well on ice as did studded tires for traction.
Another blow to the heart of the myth that studded tires were of any real benefit. The tests by many highway departments had already determined that whatever minute advantage of older studded tire designs was far offset by the damage to the roads that they caused, hence the bans in such states as MN, WI, TX, and MD (along with some others that don't have such serious winter weather patterns). WA and UT are currently considering banning the studs, too, as their tests have documented little benefit to road safety and lots of damage from their use.
My experience with Blizzaks was that they were pretty good performers in the snow, but I never got more than 12,000 miles on a set (on 123 chassis MB diesel cars) before they were worn to a point where they didn't work, a little less than half the tread depth. That was primarily in Colorado mountain driving, where a typical winter had a mix of snowpack, ice, and sometimes even dry roads when the sunshine cleared the roads. I got much longer (many winter seasons) use out of Gislaved snow tires, with equally good snow and ice performance, although at a penalty of 1-2 mpg compared to my dry season tires. The current tests give very high ratings to the Michelin's ... so they'll be my next snow tire purchase for the ol 'benz.
We've had good luck and traction with Nokian tires here in Chicagoland. They are all-season but also highly rated for winter, even by our friends up in Canada.
Interesting to note that in the current winter tire tests (Nov ConsumerReports), they mention that several of the "top" rated snow tires performed as well on ice as did studded tires for traction. . .
I'm not buying this for a second. I've competed in a lot of ice trials. The studs have separate classes from the non-studs, and nearly without fail the person from the studded class with the worst completed lap time still finishes higher than the person with the best lap time in the the non-studded class. Not that it matters much in the OP's case since studs are completely unnecessary anywhere in Indiana, but in this case Consumer Reports is full of it. The difference in grip on ice is night and day -- the studded classes lap the course more like they're on gravel than on ice.
I'm not buying this for a second. I've competed in a lot of ice trials. The studs have separate classes from the non-studs, and nearly without fail the person from the studded class with the worst completed lap time still finishes higher than the person with the best lap time in the the non-studded class. Not that it matters much in the OP's case since studs are completely unnecessary anywhere in Indiana, but in this case Consumer Reports is full of it. The difference in grip on ice is night and day -- the studded classes lap the course more like they're on gravel than on ice.
Agreed! I've driven years with both, and the studless tires are good, but not in it with the studded. This is coming from driving new studded Winterforce tires for the winter of 07/08, and the newest Blizzak WS-60's last winter (08/09) on the same vehicle. While the WS-60's "compare" to the Winterforce on paper and in test's, they do NOT compare in real driving over the course of a winter. Also agreed that Indiana really doesn't need the studded tires even if they allow them.
If you drive carefully and learn how to drive properly on snow and ice you should be fine. If you aren't familiar with snow and ice then go to a big, empty parking lot where you can't hit anything and practice. Practice starting, stopping turning, panic stops, etc. Put into a skid and practice pulling it out.
Well before you do that you should probably know the differences between the two skids and how to recover from them. Also I can tell you from experience some people don't even know how ABS works, so they don't even know how to do proper ABS stops.
I'm not buying this for a second. I've competed in a lot of ice trials. The studs have separate classes from the non-studs, and nearly without fail the person from the studded class with the worst completed lap time still finishes higher than the person with the best lap time in the the non-studded class. Not that it matters much in the OP's case since studs are completely unnecessary anywhere in Indiana, but in this case Consumer Reports is full of it. The difference in grip on ice is night and day -- the studded classes lap the course more like they're on gravel than on ice.
So what you're saying is that all the tests performed by the State of Washington and Idaho and Utah are invalid?
And that the folks who banned the studded tires in MN and WI are also totally wrong about real world driving safety results they've obtained with non-studded snow tires vs. studded tires?
All of these highway departments have a serious liability about safety issues. If the "real world" safety of driving on their state roads was so enhanced by using studs, they'd mandate them during the winter season, much like other required safety gear standards ... instead of banning them.
We're talking on the road performance for snow tires, not ice racing on a track. Some of us have been around long enough to have seen the days when large domestic cars (Caddy's and Oldsmobiles) could turn in pretty good lap times in ice races on Georgetown, CO's, reservoir. But I wouldn't take that as a justification to run those heavy cars on the road in the winter ... I did better with small BMW's on icy roads with high quality hydrophillic snow tires. For that matter, back in the late 1960's and early 1970's, I got around pretty well in inclement conditions with Saab cars .... before I bought my first Audi quattro a few years later.
I had a tech working in my shop who had three ice-racing dedicated jeeps back in the 1970's-80's. His tires were studded, but they didn't have any resemblance to the studded tires that folks drive on the streets. Same thing for his ice racing motorcycles ... wow, did they have some studs on those tires unlike anything that you'd ever see on street bikes. I'd have hated to been around if somebody dropped their bike and was run over by those spikes.
Well before you do that you should probably know the differences between the two skids and how to recover from them. Also I can tell you from experience some people don't even know how ABS works, so they don't even know how to do proper ABS stops.
don't you just keep the brake pedal slammed to the floor in ABS equipped cars and trucks and pump the brakes in NON-ABS equipped so they don't lock up up the tires and go into a skid.
Well before you do that you should probably know the differences between the two skids and how to recover from them. Also I can tell you from experience some people don't even know how ABS works, so they don't even know how to do proper ABS stops.
Wanneroo, thanks for your answer!
I thought for a car with ABS brakes all I need to do is to keep the pedal to the floor until the car stops.
What two skids and the difference you are referring to? I have no idea about them and how to recover from them....
Interesting to note that in the current winter tire tests (Nov ConsumerReports), they mention that several of the "top" rated snow tires performed as well on ice as did studded tires for traction.
Another blow to the heart of the myth that studded tires were of any real benefit.
A good and true comparison for normal street driving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover
I'm not buying this for a second. I've competed in a lot of ice trials.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand
Agreed! I've driven years with both, and the studless tires are good, but not in it with the studded.
Why don't you two guys stay in context here and not compare street driving to ice racing.
Thanks much for your suggestions! I will probably use Michelin winter tires, which are rated as the top one in CR, instead of studded tires (I guess those tires wont work well since I drive a long distance on highway to office.)
The remaining question for me is shall I buy new steel rims or just get them from salvage yard? Will those from the salvage yard have lesser quality and therefore reduce the safety? Or in general there is very few problems (other than the looks) with old rims since they tend to be very sturdy? At the same time, it seems the new rims from tirerack.com are much more expensive, at least, $110 for one alloy rim (no steel rims avaiable for my car)...
Or I just have someone install the winter tires on my current rims and switch the tires twice a year. Since I plan to sell this car after another four years, I am not sure if the new rims deserves the investment.. Any thought?
Thanks again!
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