Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The audio of the communication between the aircraft and ATC is widely available.
Yes it is. Here's an excerpt:
ATC (partial transmission): "...bring you back to LAX immediately or do you need to hold to burn fuel. You tell me what you need to do."
DAL89: "Okay Delta 89, we're gonna go ahead. Uh, We've got the engine and we've got a compressor stall. We got it back under control. We're gonna come back to LAX. We're not, uh, critical......"
ATC: "Okay, so you don't need to hold to dump fuel or anything like that?"
DAL89: "Negative. We'll be requesting runway 25R".
Note that the first question was to hold to burn fuel, not dump fuel.
Those of you who are quick to criticize this crew's actions or quick to call them lazy have certainly never had to handle an emergency while at the controls of an aircraft (much less a large heavy aircraft with 180 people behind you that are counting on you not screwing up). You can't just pull over to the side of the road and figure things out. You must keep flying the plane all the way to landing. Any kind of emergency is a high stress time. Yes they train for it, yes they simulate emergency situations. But I can speak from personal experience ... when it actually happens in flight it's a whole lot different. There's a lot going through your head as you try to evaluate the problem, come up with a fix, think of alternatives, keep the plane upright, not hit anything, talk to ATC, etc., all while traveling at over 320 miles per hour.
ATC (partial transmission): "...bring you back to LAX immediately or do you need to hold to burn fuel. You tell me what you need to do."
DAL89: "Okay Delta 89, we're gonna go ahead. Uh, We've got the engine and we've got a compressor stall. We got it back under control. We're gonna come back to LAX. We're not, uh, critical......"
ATC: "Okay, so you don't need to hold to dump fuel or anything like that?"
DAL89: "Negative. We'll be requesting runway 25R".
Note that the first question was to hold to burn fuel, not dump fuel.
Those of you who are quick to criticize this crew's actions or quick to call them lazy have certainly never had to handle an emergency while at the controls of an aircraft (much less a large heavy aircraft with 180 people behind you that are counting on you not screwing up). You can't just pull over to the side of the road and figure things out. You must keep flying the plane all the way to landing. Any kind of emergency is a high stress time. Yes they train for it, yes they simulate emergency situations. But I can speak from personal experience ... when it actually happens in flight it's a whole lot different. There's a lot going through your head as you try to evaluate the problem, come up with a fix, think of alternatives, keep the plane upright, not hit anything, talk to ATC, etc., all while traveling at over 320 miles per hour.
Sure you can pull over. It's called a holding pattern. If the aircraft is flyable, they can take as much time as they have fuel, to figure things out. And this plane had more then enough fuel. I have listened to thousands of ATC recordings of emergency situations. Often planes circle airports for hours after they declare an emergency, while they try to figure things out.
This pilot had two correct solutions to choose from, and one wrong one. 1. To hold and dump fuel over the ocean. 2. To land heavy. The pilot failed to choose either correct solution.
This story gets stranger and stranger. Reports are now that ATC asked twice if they would have to dump fuel and were told no then the pilot decides when below recommended altitude to dump (so the fuel would evaporate before getting to ground level to dump fuel? It would be interesting to hear the cockpit voice recordings. Was it a simple case of the pilot flipping the wrong switch causing the fuel dump or was it a conscious decision? Is there an automated system that calculates the weight and dumps fuel if it is too high for landing?
From what I understand it would be virtually impossible for a trained pilot to dump fuel accidentally. The pilot makes that decision whether to dump fuel or not.
Sure you can pull over. It's called a holding pattern. If the aircraft is flyable, they can take as much time as they have fuel, to figure things out. And this plane had more then enough fuel. I have listened to thousands of ATC recordings of emergency situations. Often planes circle airports for hours after they declare an emergency, while they try to figure things out.
Listening to thousands of ATC recordings doesn't make you a pilot, and it doesn't tell you what's really going on in the cockpit.
Quote:
This pilot had two correct solutions to choose from, and one wrong one. 1. To hold and dump fuel over the ocean. 2. To land heavy. The pilot failed to choose either correct solution.
So you were in the cockpit, you know what the crew saw, you know how they evaluated the situation, and what went in their decision making process. Because that's the only way that you can justifiably state they had "two correct solutions to choose from, and one wrong one".
Listening to thousands of ATC recordings doesn't make you a pilot, and it doesn't tell you what's really going on in the cockpit.
So you were in the cockpit, you know what the crew saw, you know how they evaluated the situation, and what went in their decision making process. Because that's the only way that you can justifiably state they had "two correct solutions to choose from, and one wrong one".
billl, you were not in the cockpit either. So get over yourself.
Listening to thousands of ATC recordings doesn't make you a pilot, and it doesn't tell you what's really going on in the cockpit.
So you were in the cockpit, you know what the crew saw, you know how they evaluated the situation, and what went in their decision making process. Because that's the only way that you can justifiably state they had "two correct solutions to choose from, and one wrong one".
Want to bet money that the final report will say that the pilots erred? Hint, you probably don't want to take me up on the bet. Since multiple aviation experts have already condemned the pilots actions.
Want to bet money that the final report will say that the pilots erred? Hint, you probably don't want to take me up on the bet. Since multiple aviation experts have already condemned the pilots actions.
I'm pretty sure the report won't say "the pilot was too lazy to spend 30 minutes dumping the fuel over the ocean".
I noticed some people here seem to think this is no big deal, because THEIR CHILDREN were not on that playground. That's pretty heartless.
If this happened at my child's school, I'd sue. They put all those children at risk when they didn't even need to.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
