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Old 01-29-2020, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,561 posts, read 23,057,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
No. At 20 knots and most presentations the bird would hold together and you would have a pretty good chance of survival. At 10 knots virtually no chance you would get killed.

At 100 knots plus the bird is going to disintegrate with virtually no chance of survival.
Assuming the obstruction you hit was flat ground...maybe.

If not, falling to the ground (or rolling down a mountain) will usually do it.

 
Old 01-29-2020, 06:08 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,717 posts, read 26,782,723 times
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While less-than-ideal weather is not uncommon for experienced pilots, flying when visibility is decreasing poses an extreme danger, experts say.

“The largest killer in aviation, bar none, is weather,” said Michael Lenz, a retired safety program analyst with the Federal Aviation Administration. “The types of weather where this occurs aren’t usually severe like thunderstorms, but simply restrictions to visibility.”


https://www.latimes.com/california/s...licopter-crash
 
Old 01-29-2020, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,338,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
While less-than-ideal weather is not uncommon for experienced pilots, flying when visibility is decreasing poses an extreme danger, experts say.

“The largest killer in aviation, bar none, is weather,” said Michael Lenz, a retired safety program analyst with the Federal Aviation Administration. “The types of weather where this occurs aren’t usually severe like thunderstorms, but simply restrictions to visibility.”


https://www.latimes.com/california/s...licopter-crash
We're talking a sub class. Heavy helicopters in the Los Angeles area. General aviation statistics have no meaning. And include pilots who are helicopter CFII and have years of experience doing trips in the LA area.

I think you will find that statistic has a very different history.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 06:44 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,717 posts, read 26,782,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
We're talking a sub class. Heavy helicopters in the Los Angeles area. General aviation statistics have no meaning. And include pilots who are helicopter CFII and have years of experience doing trips in the LA area.

I think you will find that statistic has a very different history.
From the same article:

The FAA’s helicopter flying handbook states that losing all visual references during a flight “can cause sensory overload” for a pilot, who can then lose the ability to think rationally. In some instances, instead of slowing the helicopter, a pilot will increase airspeed.

“This can be caused by an oculogravic illusion. This type of illusion occurs when an aircraft accelerates and decelerates. Inertia from linear accelerations and decelerations cause the otolith organ to sense a nose-high or nose-low attitude,” the handbook states. “Pilots falsely perceive that the aircraft is in a nose-high attitude. Therefore, pilots increase airspeed.”

Steve Sparks, a former aviation safety inspector with the FAA, wrote in a February 2016 article for Heliweb Magazine that more than two-thirds of all weather-related helicopter accidents result in at least one fatality — a rate three times higher than other general aviation accidents. Sparks wrote that a common factor in many such crashes was the pilot’s decision to keep flying.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 06:56 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,338,167 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
From the same article:

The FAA’s helicopter flying handbook states that losing all visual references during a flight “can cause sensory overload” for a pilot, who can then lose the ability to think rationally. In some instances, instead of slowing the helicopter, a pilot will increase airspeed.

“This can be caused by an oculogravic illusion. This type of illusion occurs when an aircraft accelerates and decelerates. Inertia from linear accelerations and decelerations cause the otolith organ to sense a nose-high or nose-low attitude,” the handbook states. “Pilots falsely perceive that the aircraft is in a nose-high attitude. Therefore, pilots increase airspeed.”

Steve Sparks, a former aviation safety inspector with the FAA, wrote in a February 2016 article for Heliweb Magazine that more than two-thirds of all weather-related helicopter accidents result in at least one fatality — a rate three times higher than other general aviation accidents. Sparks wrote that a common factor in many such crashes was the pilot’s decision to keep flying.
Let us see the statistic for heavy helicopters in the Los Angeles area flown by Helicopter CFII with more than 10 years of heavy local experience.
That is the applicable statistics set.
The ability to go to the gauges regardless of what your mind says is the mark of a good IFR pilot. This guy and his class should be the ultimate.
Doing it annoys the hell out of my brain but it does as told. And these guys would be vastly better than I am.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 09:02 PM
 
3,642 posts, read 1,596,995 times
Reputation: 5075
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Let us see the statistic for heavy helicopters in the Los Angeles area flown by Helicopter CFII with more than 10 years of heavy local experience.
That is the applicable statistics set.
The ability to go to the gauges regardless of what your mind says is the mark of a good IFR pilot. This guy and his class should be the ultimate.
Doing it annoys the hell out of my brain but it does as told. And these guys would be vastly better than I am.

And he's trained to follow gauges in this type of situation, correct? So the only question is what caused the rapid descent which leaves three possibilities: disorientation, mechanical failure, or sudden health issue.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,338,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james112 View Post
And he's trained to follow gauges in this type of situation, correct? So the only question is what caused the rapid descent which leaves three possibilities: disorientation, mechanical failure, or sudden health issue.
And given the background of this pilot I think the disorientation is the least likely and by a lot.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,561 posts, read 23,057,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
And given the background of this pilot I think the disorientation is the least likely and by a lot.
Statistics says otherwise.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,338,167 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McBain II View Post
Statistics says otherwise.
Nonsense. There are none which are applicable. But we will see in time.
 
Old 01-29-2020, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Tampa (by way of Omaha)
14,561 posts, read 23,057,740 times
Reputation: 10356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Nonsense. There are none which are applicable. But we will see in time.
The statistical chance that the pilot suffered a health issue and/or that the helicopter suffered a mechanical failure are incredibly small.

I don't know why you are having such a tough time accepting that this was IIMC leading to CFIT. The evidence points a pretty clear picture here.
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