How bad is farming real produce in hawaii ? (shop, agriculture)

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by manekiNEK0

After doing my own research online, I will concede that the scientific community seems to be edging closer to the consensus that GMO crops are basically as healthy to eat as the original strains. ...
*snip*
Point is, the debate is far from over.

Enjoyed your post, manekiNEKO ... but I'm going to offer you another venue to consider:

Genetic Roulette - The Gamble of our Lives - YouTube

Anyone interested in the topic of GMO will find this hour and a half in-depth film extremely provoking ... dare you to watch. The range of interviews run from hippie organic types, to many doctors, to research scientists at universities, to former government officials of the US FDA and EPA, Canada, Europe, India -- and so on.

Watch and ask yourself who stands to profit from supporting GMO -- and who stands to profit from opposing it. In the immortal words of Watergate's "Deep Throat": "Follow the money".

Btw: Hawaiian papayas make a brief cameo on a list and mention at about the 1 hour and 10 minute mark or so.

Aloha and good health to you all -- be well.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by McFrostyJ

I just used Google and answered my own question.
Is there any way I can give myself rep points?

No, but I'll give you one for cracking me up.

Food fight: The safety of growing GMO crops « Molokainews's Blog

Interesting link, thanks. Here's why you have to be on your toes when reading this stuff... because most journalists today are not rigorous at all about vetting the information fed to them.

Consider the part beginning:

"Biotechnology critic Jeffrey Smith, author of the book “Seeds of Deception,” cites human health problems that have occurred in other countries that grow GMO crops. Smith came to Molokai in February to share these concerns." And then we hear from Smith.

But who is Smith, and what's his background? Why should we believe what he has to say? On this, the writer is silent.

But a quick background check shows that Smith's educational background is studying Marketing at Maharishi University, that he teaches Yogic Hopping in his home state of Iowa, that he makes his living teaching Swing Dancing, and that his book is self-published. Clearly, his comments to the reporter were an attempt to promote his book. But how many people would bother to check up to find out he's really nobody special to pay attention to, since the journalist didn't?

Like so many of the quacks and others of dubious repute who are weighing in publically on this issue... and who then get quoted as if they actually knew what they were talking about... this guy is just out to make a buck. And what sells is SCARY STORIES.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

You seem to think you get to define the rules of engagement for the GMO controversy at large -- and for this discussion ... I am not sure what your sense of authority is --

Hijacking a thread with a flood of information on a controversial topic which does not belong on a local relocation forum is a violation of the TOS. https://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html

and

Hijacking a thread with a flood of dubious information which does not pass even the most basic scrutiny for credibilty is a violation of my sense of what I want to engage with.

As just one example, listing Dr. Mercola as a reliable source? The multimillionaire self-promoter, who has been hit with Cease & Desist orders on three different occasions by the FDA, and who is a perennial candidate for Top Quack of the Year? That Dr. Mercola? Sorry, but if that's the level of debate, I am definitely not interested in engaging, even if you post it on the correct forum.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by OpenD

Hijacking a thread with a flood of information on a controversial topic which does not belong on a local relocation forum is a violation of the TOS. https://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html

Oh geez. Feeling threatened or something Open? This isn't about you. I have no beef with you. As I wrote previously: I often enjoy and respect your posts. I have a very strong perspective on this issue.

Now note that the thread isn't about "relocation" ... it's title is: How bad is farming real produce in hawaii ? And you made a comment early on (in post #6 https://www.city-data.com/forum/26581533-post6.html) that opened the discussion to GMO's ... I didnt bring it up ... your statement: "So the plant scientists at CTAHR developed a Genetically Modified papaya that is resistant to the virus. And a couple more varieties are being developed. Then a new pest emerged: the eco-terrorist".

That noted, I am responding -- on topic -- with information to counter your assertion that what was being done to save the Big Island papaya is a great thing: for humanity and the Big Island economy. I challenge that viewpoint with observations about ethical and health issues -- and whether those issues are trumped by the B.I. economy. I assert that nothing trumps health and social ethics.

And you are upset at being challenged I suppose. Too bad you feel that way rather than being interested to engage the debate respectfully. This is of great importance around the world right now. And Hawaii is a player -- especially noting that Monsanto and cadre' have chosen our state as a research and production site.

btw: you do understand why Monsanto chooses to grow GMO seed in Hawaii don't you? Corn is not a significant Hawaiian crop. So why is the seed fostered here? Think about it. All of Hawaii should think about it.

Originally Posted by OpenD

Hijacking a thread with a flood of dubious information which does not pass even the most basic scrutiny for credibilty is a violation of my sense of what I want to engage with.

Your opinion of what is dubious or not is -- well -- your opinion. I don't believe you have been granted any special status here to serve as judge. You are just another poster like everyone else -- in spite of your apparent self-anointment as Hawaiian CD Forum Oracle. And, if the discussion violates your sense of "what [you] want to engage with", why do you persist with the thread? There are a number of other participants who have opinions and questions and interest here. You can simply leave us to our own devices.

Originally Posted by OpenD

As just one example, listing Dr. Mercola as a reliable source? The multimillionaire self-promoter, who has been hit with Cease & Desist orders on three different occasions by the FDA, and who is a perennial candidate for Top Quack of the Year? That Dr. Mercola? Sorry, but if that's the level of debate, I am definitely not interested in engaging, even if you post it on the correct forum.

Your judgement of Dr. Mercola -- as with your denigration of Biotechnology critic Jeffrey Smith linked by McFrosty's post -- raises some truly revealing issues about your positional assumptions. The tacit argument you are presenting is rife with false syllogisms. I expect you are a college man, but doubt you ever studied logic? Your associations of people's backgrounds to the credibilities of information they share -- information not derived from themselves, but from other entirely credible, and well cited sources, is well, scurrilous.

But, right now I've got some other obligations to turn to. I'll get back to debunking your debunking later.

[KauaiHiker]

I think manekiNEKO brings up 2 important points about GMOs:

1. Labeling seems like such a trivial issue, why isn't it happening in the US (though California has it on the ballot this election, it's not certain to pass)? Companies want a patent on the GMO plant (another issue in and of itself), so they want the right to say their plant is different from the regular plant, but then they don't want consumers to know it's different--seems like having your cake and eating it too. However, the way it's going, it will become essentially a religious issue. OpenD mentioned that one of the GMO opponents is a Maharishi follower, and I think that to them, eating GMO is like a Jew eating non-Kosher. As manekiNEKO said, some people will care about the labels, others won't.

2. There are many, many ways that GM is being used in plants (an probably soon commercial animals). That leads to many different interactions with the enviroment as well as different socio-economic issues. On the one hand, there is the Papaya. From one article that was linked, it said the Papaya growers association paid someone (Monsanto maybe) for the license to the patented gene manipulation technique. But the GMO they created is sold as a regular plant without futher markup, and without controlling the seeds (that contain the GMO genes) or the plants that grow from them (anyone can buy a GMO papaya and plant the seeds). Compare that to the patented plants themselves where farmers must buy the seeds every year (instead of saving the preceding crop and planting for "free"). Or to the roundup-resistant GMOs where the goal is to spray roundup to kill weeds in the same field. So now your corn cob is drenched in round-up, and the herbicide is being washed out of the fields and into the environment. Not to mention weeds developing resistance to the round-up as well and farmers required to spray more and more. It's not just the resistance, it's the downstream (literally) effects of that resistance. Then there was the issue of allergy to Star Link corn that wasn't meant for humans, but made it into our food chain anyways. Give humans another way to screw up, and they will sooner.

[Jungjohann]

Those big companies, Monsanto, Dupont, Acme, you know, the ones involved with all this OMG stuff, do they have anything to do with Hormel? Specifically, the growing or packaging/making of SPAM? I'm REALLY concerned about this, and would be very upset if they had anything to do with modifying SPAM. After all, I would like to be assured that my SPAM is packaged in its true, unadulterated, pure form.. Fresh off the hoof......... Or foot........ Claw??? You know, whatever it's made from, I don't want that screwed with....Thanks

meanwhile,,,, back on the patio

[manekiNEK0]

Originally Posted by KauaiHiker

There are many, many ways that GM is being used in plants (an probably soon commercial animals).

Ever hear of the GMO spider goats?
Synthetic biology and the rise of the 'spider-goats' | Science | The Observer

I know that scientists have also successfully genetically altered chickens that are incapable of spreading the bird flu.

Originally Posted by Jungjohann

...I would like to be assured that my SPAM is packaged in its true, unadulterated, pure form.. Fresh off the hoof......... Or foot........ Claw??? You know, whatever it's made from, I don't want that screwed with....

lol

[manekiNEK0]

@ nullgeo

I'll check out that video as soon as I get the chance. Thanks for posting it

[CyberCity]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

There are a number of other participants who have opinions and questions and interest here.

Thanks for this discussion. GMO in agriculture is certainly a hot topic to Hawaii's farmers, and consumers, and to the many of us who have followed the GMO bans for kalo (taro) and coffee.

[mangodog]

Together, our voices are strong to insist on local agricultural uniformity - the old traditions.