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So, shelter on the Hilo side on the cheap is a rough estimate of around $1,610 more likely just over $2K. Kona side on the cheap around $2.2K to around $2.6K. That is housing with bare utilities, no cable, no phones.
Hmm, feeding that many folks, well, you're probably not eating out much. Five kids for breakfast (how many are teenagers?) about a gallon and a half of milk and a box and a half of cereal? Figure milk at $6 a gallon and cereal at about $5 a box so that's $9 for milk and $7.50 for cereal and no coffee or eggs or anything else to that breakfast. Sandwiches for lunch? A loaf of bread $5 for the relatively cheap stuff, $2 for condiments (partial jar of mayo or mustard/ketchup) add in $7 for lunch meat of some sort. The packaged stuff, no real deli counters around here. Dinner - figure some sort of inexpensive fixed dinner such as spagetti & meatballs with a side salad. Jar of spagetti sauce $4, spagetti noodles $2, hamburger for meatballs $5. 2# of lettuce $3, carrots $2, tomatoes $3, jar of salad dressing $4 and there's nothing to drink other than water. So a basic day of food for five should run about $55 on the cheap. If you add in sodas or snacks, then add in another $20. Probably around a minimum of $70 per day to keep the tribe fed. Times 30 days a month, so food around $2,000 a month for basic food. Not fancy food, basic inexpensive food. No soda or beer/wine on the list, add in more for that if you want it. Actual amounts will probably be around $2,500 to $3K or more because of snacks and such.
So, roughly, food and housing should run about $4.7K to $5.6K. Now add in shoes, clothes, cars, insurance, medical expenses, cell phones, cable, toys, air fares to the mainland to visit folks, etc. etc. etc. Oh, and taxes, don't forget those. At $80K a year, you're starving with no car. He would need to bring in $220 each and every day to keep the tribe in just basic shelter and basic food.
Are those figures for the west side? On the East side my mortgage is under $800/month and I've never paid those prices for food. I couldn't pay those prices. I might get the occasional high ticket item due to poor planning on my part, but I have a pantry full of items that were all purchased on sale, and for costs relatively close to what the pay on much of the mainland, and probably a fraction of what they pay in Manhattan.
Wow thanks for all the tips/advice. We do have 5 kids all under the age of 8 so call us crazy but we do love it! I am a sahm so my flying hubby is the only wage earner. This move wouldn't be able to happen for 3 yrs because I told him it would never work unless we are out of debt (which is student loans only) we do have a mortgage but we would rent it out very easily. My hubby has been flying for 8 yrs so he has enough hours for whatever job he wants and his ems job is very stable with him as the base manager. He is just sick of flying in Phoenix (born and raised) so he thinks Hawaii would be a better option. We have been to the big island once for 10 days and he fell in love and has been dreaming about flying for them ever since. Also when it comes to food cost I didn't notice much of a difference in grocery prices when we went there on vacation. We don't drink milk and we don't eat red meat only on occasion and we don't drink anything but water we eat mostly fish/chicken and fresh fruit and veggies. We actually thought we spent less money on food over then then in phx. He keeps trying to convince me that this will be an awesome adventure for our family but having so many little kids makes me a little hesitant! We are young ourselves (28 and 30) so maybe a little later down the road this could work out better!
He keeps trying to convince me that this will be an awesome adventure for our family but having so many little kids makes me a little hesitant!
The fact that he keeps trying to convince you about moving after only having spent 10 days on the island is a red flag. It shows that he is still very much in the domain of fantasy, and doesn't have his feet on the ground at all. It would be natural and normal for him to have serious doubts and questions about making such a drastic move, out to the end of a 2,500 mile supply chain, with a total cost of living far higher than that in Phoenix, with a large family in tow.
You being so hesitant is another red flag for this project, because it shows you're being more practical, looking at what all it takes to actually make a large family run well on a day to day basis, and you know you don't have nearly enough information with which to make a wise decision. You can't just pick those kids up there and plop them down here without careful planning. That won't end well at all.
As I've said before, the Big Island is different from whatever you're used to in 1,001 various ways, most of which you will only begin to understand after you've been here a while, many of which you won't suspect until you run into them, and some of which you'll simply never adjust to. But now that several people have popped the bubble a little, for you at least, you can begin the serious research you need to do to try to decide if the idea is even feasible for your family or not.
Dig into the archives here, and use the Search function to bring up the gold. There's a wealth of information here, from people with all kinds of experiences and different viewpoints. Pay particular attention to the posts about moving children here, and schooling and health care.
Do you plan on homeschooling your children? If not, please think very, very carefully about moving here. A dream of moving someplace so different after one 10 day vacation is fraught with problems. Who doesn't fall in love with Hawaii???If your hubby is so sick of flying in Phoenix, there are many, many places on the mainland that you could move to that would make much more sense.
Please spend some time reading through the many helpful, informative threads here and then have a good talk with your husband. Save the fantasy of living in Hawaii for when you are retired and the kids are out of school.
I'm pretty sure most mortgages are less expensive than rent at the moment, Terracore, but I've not checked the numbers. It also matters when you bought the house and how much the down payment was as to what your final mortgage amount is. But, the OP didn't mention buying a house, so I checked general rent amounts on Craig's List.
On food costs, we were just on the mainland for three weeks and eating out costs were somewhat similar to the ones here if not a bit higher on the mainland. Food at the grocery store was a lot lower on the mainland, though. So, check the online prices of the grocery stores if it's available. Make a list of what your family eats in a day or week and then look the prices up and do a direct comparison.
I've never paid those prices for food. I couldn't pay those prices. I might get the occasional high ticket item due to poor planning on my part, but I have a pantry full of items that were all purchased on sale, and for costs relatively close to what the pay on much of the mainland, and probably a fraction of what they pay in Manhattan.
But didn't you move here from Alaska? So how do you know what the food prices are like in Phoenix? According to government surveys, the average overall cost of living in Hilo is about 35% higher than Phoenix, and although higher housing cost is proportionally the largest part of the household budget, food prices have an even higher differential.
And frankly, I think the argument you made that the food you buy on sale is close to the prices on the mainland (never mind that food costs, and quality, vary widely across the country) misses several key points...
1. When you buy on sale you have to buy the brand on sale, when it's on sale, in the size on sale, even if those wouldn't be your normal choices, and you have to have room to store it. So you've lost all choice in the matter except yes/no. Not everyone shops for food that way. Regular everyday shopping for what you need, when you need it simply costs more in Hawai'i, as surveys show.
2. Comparing the sale prices in Hawai'i, which typically cover less than 1% of a store's total inventory at any given time, to the regular prices in a given mainland location is deceptive, because the sale prices there will be lower still.
3. Most states, like Arizona, do not charge sales tax on food for home preparation. But in Hawai'i our General Excise tax is added to food purchases, and prescription drugs, and personal services and medical care, so that's a price bump for most people right there. And that extra 4.16% (4.712% on Oahu) adds up because it is on everything.
4. There's apparently some kind of denial factor going on for people who come here on vacation and say "the prices weren't much different" when everything packaged, like a box of cornflakes is $1 more, and bread is twice as expensive, etc. Many families find they have to modify their shopping and cooking habits once they get to Hawai'i to avoid blowing out their monthly budget, but yet some people still claim the prices aren't much different. Makes me crazy.
When I said the price weren't much different or even cheaper that was a true statement. When we vacationed over there we didn't eat any cereal or sandwiches or any of the other food mentioned we grilled ever night and the meat fish/chicken and I think my hubby had a piece of steak was by far a lot cheaper and better since it was all the grass fed stuff. The rest of the stuff was either the same or slightly higher but we did a lot of farmers markets. We would also try to get chickens for our own for eggs and we did check out the costco and their prices weren't much different then what we buy over here for our kids. If and when we decide to move over there we will be debt free and have a significant savings in the mean time I told my hubby we should just visit every year for a month (since he can take a month off every year) but we will make an informed decision when that time comes! Thanks for all the input and advice
All one has to do is go to www.safeway.com to get a sense of just how much more expensive Hawaii is to the mainland. I've posted line by line exact comparisons before - search is your friend to dig it up.
The weekly fliers are available by zip code - even San Francisco, one of the most expensive places to live would make you feel like a kid in a candy store compared to Honolulu. And Honolulu is cheap compared to the outer islands.
All one has to do is go to www.safeway.com to get a sense of just how much more expensive Hawaii is to the mainland. I've posted line by line exact comparisons before - search is your friend to dig it up. The weekly fliers are available by zip code - even San Francisco, one of the most expensive places to live would make you feel like a kid in a candy store compared to Honolulu. And Honolulu is cheap compared to the outer islands.
Oh, what fun... let's compare Phoenix to Hilo, since that's the most relevant comparison for the OP...
And don't forget, these are the reduced price SALE items they use to attract you into the store, so you'll buy more at regular prices, the standard supermarket "loss leader" model at work...
Item............... Phoenix price.........Hilo Price... Hilo difference
Etc., etc., etc. This is just a taste, but the same thing is going on everywhere. So much for "the prices seem about the same."
Also keep in mind that 85% of the fresh fruits and vegetables sold in Hawai'i are shipped in from California, as are most of the chicken, eggs, milk, meat, etc., so even on their first day in the market in Hawai'i they've already been in transit from the suppliers for a week or more.
So yes, for the freshest food, and often the best prices, try to find local produce and local fish, the two categories you can save money on if you shop carefully at farmers markets. You just have to adjust to buying and cooking and eating different varieties than you are used to buying on the mainland. Lots more Asian varieties. Purple sweet potatoes. Chinese cabbages. Mangoes and guavas and papayas.
Good luck.
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Safeway Flyer Comparisons - Phoenix to Hilo
