Diverting a lava flow, pono or not? (Volcano, Pahoa: 2013, neighborhood)

[hawaiian by heart]

Originally Posted by OpenD

What does this mean?



What is the English translation for this?

It means my spirit(uhane) leans towards the traditional native beliefs.

E pili mau na pomaika`i ia `oe means May blessings ever be with you.

[Jungjohann]

Oh, come on OD. You're the fastest google head west of the Pecos. I have confidence that you can figure it out....


Puha nui

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by mdand3boys

As to whether or not diversion is pono or not, I have noticed that by far, the majority of the people at the Civil Defense meetings that oppose (rather vocally I might add) any diversion talk, seem to be older, haole retired types.I guess their attempt at being "local" means they think they have to appease Pele, even though they probably scoffed at this very notion before they moved here to retire. Lots of these pretenders around here.

I don't think they are pretenders, as they are probably "true believers" in the religious sense. And like many recent religious converts, they are full of zeal, in a way that throws them off balance in the domain of common sense. I have some friends and neighbors who I have had to avoid recently, because they have gone full-tilt bonkers over this lava episode and Topical Storm Iselle before it, organizing prayer groups and email chains to work together spiritually to "divert the storm" and to "turn the lava away." And then whenever a change occurs they've taken to patting themselves on the back for "downgrading the hurricane," and "stopping the flow" as if their prayer-work was the decisive factor in the complex changing circumstances.

"But wait," I want to say, "if the native Hawaiian belief is that the Goddess Pele wants her lava to be welcomed as a guest, and not diverted, then you are definitely being sacrilegious by focusing on this diversion." But I don't say anything, because I don't want to get in their faces. I just get very busy with something else when the subject comes up.

I have studied many different religious traditions around the world, and have genuine respect for all of them, as I do for the people who follow them. I know that you can't use logic to debate with people about their faith. There's a certain amount of irrationality in every single one of them. So when the self-identified Native Hawaiian women at the meeting talked about cleaning house and getting ready to great a guest as their way of dealing with the lava flow I honor and respect that tradition. I don't join them in their belief, but I respect it.

But I see something happening in the video that I don't like at all, which is people of differing beliefs being disrespected for theirs. There might easily have been Buddhists there, Catholics, Mormons, maybe even a Pastafarian or a Scientologist or two. Probably some Atheists. But I didn't see their "cultural sensitivities" being respected.

Matter of fact, the Civil Defense guy was clearly being evasive on the topic of attempts to divert the lava flow, falling back time and again on the same well practiced line about how they were not considering diversion at all, citing "cultural sensitivities." Clearly he had been directed not to say any more, as became obvious when he blew off the older lady with the European accent toward the end who wanted to know why the "cultural sensitivities" of only one part of the population were taking precedence over the safety of people and the security of property. I thought it was a completely reasonable question, which the Civil Defense guy completely stonewalled her on.

And I think it raises a serious Constitutional issue, about the separation of church and state when a government official so clearly favors the beliefs of one religion over all others.

[Dreaming of Hawaii]

Originally Posted by mdand3boys

I am one of the few posters on the Big Island forums that actually live here full-time, as well.

Why do people trying to make a point feel that they have to insult everyone else? Do you feel that you don't have credibility unless you put the rest of us down?

There are actually quite a few posters on the Big Island forums who live here full time. I guess I don't qualify since I only live here nine months of the year, instead of twelve, , but I can think of at least ten others who do live here full time.

In the future, please stick to sharing what you do know from your personal experiences, and leave out the put-downs.

[WaikikiBoy]

I'm not on the Big Island and don't have any real first hand knowledge of all the issues, but I generally believe flows should be left to their natural course and not be diverted. It just seems appropriate not to interfere with the natural formation of the island.

[67Cam]

There has been comments here and other sites about not interfering with nature and/or don't try and alter natural events. This has been directed towards the lava flow but I wonder how those who hold this opinion feel about leves built to contain rivers and prevent floods, seawalls and break waters to protect harbors, starting controlled burns or back fires to protect an area (homes) from an oncoming fire (say started by lightning strike) or any of the many other ways humans alter nature, their environment, etc... to protect it?

I don't mean this as a dig or a question of your beliefs, rather just thought it would be a good discussion to have.

[hawaiian by heart]

@OpenD

I think to be fair, cultural issues was one of three issues against diverting the lava from the officials.

The others being, that attempts in the past weren't promising and that no bombing or diverting would happen if they didn't know exactly the cause and effect of that action would be (how native in thinking). Because you may not know if your diverting lava to another community.

What shocked me was how many had cotton in there ears, Maybe the officials will overlook the three reasons if we said the same thing a hundred times. Maybe force our will more?

"cultural sensitivities"? Im curious OpenD how do you respect all cultural sensitivities if they are in opposites view of each other? Do you continue to ignore one tell all heiau and ancestor bones are dugup to let ones western manifest destiny to fully live? If we where keeping score would you say kanaka maori spiritual beliefs for aina etc would be equal to western beliefs of manifest destiny? There isnt equality.

[KauaiHiker]

Thanks for all the replies, I'm gonna watch those videos. As an off-islander, I hadn't seen the cultural side of the lava flows before. It really seems to be another one of those island-specific topics of contention (development, tourism, ag, rail, etc.).

[Slush]

Its 2014 and people still worship volcanoes.
smh
smh
smh

[Mark.ca]

Originally Posted by Slush

Its 2014 and people still worship volcanoes.
smh
smh
smh

Unfortunately, there is not much else worth to worship. This god may actually cause less disturbances than the others.