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How about moving to Puna and renting for a bit, Hapci? Or visiting, at least, that wouldn't be as expensive. Then a lot of things will become very known to you.
We just came back from Puna mere days ago. (We visit in January and July, following an established pattern.) While I haven't bought a parcel yet, we are moving over in mid-February, first to rent. I'm now boxing up the 20ft containerful of stuff we have. (Mostly books.)
It's just that I never tried esoteric things like digging into the Puna soil to see how deep it is, or sleeping outside to see if bugs are a nuisance at night. (In Waikiki they aren't bothersome. In Puna, they never bothered me during the day, either.) I did a quick association game with my Punatic host the last time, called out subdivision names, and asked him to give his overall opinion on a scale of 1 to 10. The ones getting a 10 (best) were Leilani, Pahoa, Hawaiian Shores, Kehena, Kalapana, Seaview, while Nanawale got a 9. No opinion on Kaimu-Makena, Hawaiian Parks, Puna Beach Palisades, Ohia Estates and Mauna Loa Estates. (What's your opinion, if I may ask?) Kapoho and HPP got a "too pricey" designation instead a number.
So overall, I have about half of the homework done, instead of being totally clueless. I made videos of nearly every subdivision. To me, an unbuilt lot somewhere looks pretty similar to an unbilt lot elsewhere, the growth is just less lush around the 130. A whole block on chemicals? It's not exactly unheard of at my apartment building, either. (Says an easy-going square.)
I wish I could video how meddlesome an HOA is, that would affect me more, given my affinity to new building ideas. I already learned that closing costs on a piece of Puna land are about an $1300 extra, unless I do an agreement of sale with a private seller instead. I don't know yet if trying to save that $1300 with an agreement of sale is a smart idea of not on a $$$$ property. (Insights?) So this is where I am at now. Thank you for helping me fill in the blanks.
If it's a vacant lot in Puna that you pay less than $10K for, then trying to get out of the $1,300 closing costs might make sense. If you're good with a compass and measuring and finding property pins, you might be able to skip the staking fee. A metal detector might be helpful since most pins are either a railroad spike or a bit of half inch galvanized pipe stuck in some concrete. If it's a $20K lot, then the $1,300 to make it a valid sale makes sense. Part of that $1,300 is title insurance along with escrow and filing the mortgage/title at the Bureau of Conveyances.
For vacant land, other than location, location, location, things that matter (on the land itself) is the basic topography and all sorts of other things such as: are there any lava holes? Albizia trees? Intermittant flooding? Roads? Any soil? Views? Tradewinds? Access to supplies? Remember that for trees who's roots go into the ground (ohias, but not albizia) the underground roots will look like the branches. If you find a lot with skinny vertical ohias, then they're growing in cracks and crevices in the lava. If you find an ohia with spreading branches, then it's growing in soil. Albizia keep their roots on the surface so they can be a spreading tree on lava.
There's also the neighborhood stuff such as amount of theft, rooster farms, loud neighbors, etc. Depending on your neighborhood association, some things such as pig farms may not be allowed. Find out which subdivisions have rules and restrictions and if you can live with those rules and restrictions. Leilani has quite a few, but that keeps the neighborhood up to a certain standard. Just make sure it's a standard you want. Nanawale also has a lot of rules and regs and they have a nice community center but their very small lot sizes keep that from being a very desirable area, IMHO. Leilani has acre sized lots which spreads things out more.
For Puna, how about lava? Personally, I'd not want to live much past Keaau due to the possibility of lava covering the road. Remember last year when the highway was almost covered and they were putting the lower road back through Hawaii Volcanoes National Park that got eaten by lava way back when? (mid 80's) There's also the traffic considerations of the whole area being serviced by only one road. If that road gets eaten by lava, there is no other way out. Which is why they were building the road through HVNP, although that would be a 'detour' of about an hour or more to get from Pahoa to Hilo. Even if you don't have to go to Hilo for work, you still have to go there for groceries, medical, registering your car, movies, airport, etc.
Uh, 'the 130'? That's the Keaau-Pahoa highway?
If it were me, I'd be looking upslope of Keaau (soil is a possibility and something to look for there) in an area with no 'subdivision' to sidestep the whole association mess. Having County pavement and water would be a huge plus, too. Having the neighbors already existing keeps from having some yahoo move in later, although that wouldn't be a deal breaker. Views would be a huge plus, but most Puna lots don't have them because of the overall flat topography. Also upslope of Keaau, you miss the whole mess on the Keaau-Pahoa highway. Mountainview to Keaau is good, just outside of Hilo is good, too. Try the Ainaola area (not Ainaloa).
If you can manage it, the other side of Hilo is even better.
If price matters and you can afford to not build for a year after you buy the lot (figuring out what to build and getting ready to build can take an easy six months, so that's not that much of an actual delay) then picking up something at the land auctions that the tax department has twice a year might be an option for you. You can get lots for less than retail but you must pay cash on the spot and you have to be on the spot, too. No closing costs at all.
.. So in a totally open air house the insects would eat me alive at night, and my 3000 books would turn to mush from moisture..
Not quite.
My house is pretty much open air, with screens to keep out bugs, and many books have been shelved for 20 years in this environment without falling apart. It's a wet area of Puna ,with a bit more rainfall than Hilo or Pahoa.
Otherwise, Hotzcatz is giving you a lot of excellent advice, so I can't think of much else to add.
Your Puna connection doesn't seem to be as familiar with the upper areas as the lower ones.
Large Albizzia trees are a big negative, since they're difficult and/or expensive to get rid of.
And yeah, you would definitely want to remove them!
If it's a vacant lot in Puna that you pay less than $10K for, then trying to get out of the $1,300 closing costs might make sense.
There are some nice looking spots one can buy outright for $4K to $6K. On the sale you mentioned, we saw even lower figures, we almost bought a home lot. (Next time!) Interestingly, their free title search summaries found a lot less detail that my own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
A metal detector might be helpful since most pins are either a railroad spike or a bit of half inch galvanized pipe stuck in some concrete.
Do you mean all the property delimiter pins/pipes are already in the soil? I'd just need to find them?
Thank you for all the super valuable information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
are there any lava holes?
I'm not sure what to think about lava holes. As underground construction also attracts me, if they drain, a big one might be a nice free underground house starter. If they don't drain much, a big one might be a nice free, pool starter. I guess it all depends? Yes, by 130 I meant the Keaau-Pahoa highway
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
I'd not want to live much past Keaau due to the possibility of lava covering the road.
See, this is something I never considered. Only the "lava flows downhill" wisdom of the area. You are right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
If price matters and you can afford to not build for a year after you buy the lot...
The way I see this limitation is, if I make my first, immediate structure transportable then even if the parcel is redeemed after some months, I can just take that structure elsewhere and I already saved $$$$ on rent. That savings alone buys a new parcel. Also, if redemption ever came up, I'd probably offer to the person, "Would you like to save 10-20%? Instead of getting this place with the official tucked-on interest, fees, etc., I'll sell it back to you in 11 and half months straight for the exact same amount I paid."
Here's a suggestion. If you're looking at the Hawaii MLS online, instead try Clark Realty. They have a direct link to Hawaii County's website with maps and Google & Bing aerial views. You can see what's next door and behind. (Like Chicken farms, piggeries, junkyards, encroachments, etc.)
Thank you for the Clark Realty tip, Leilaniguy. Until now I did not use MLS search at all, I searched by TMK directly at the Hawaii County web site. Their "sales information" heading on the property card page is a great way to look up how much the seller paid for the parcel.
Blind Cleric, my Puna connection is aware of the upper areas, he works all over Puna. He just didn't give them high numbers. I'm personally very attracted to verdant greenery, the zone of tall misty hapu'us. (Though I felt Glenwood Gardens is already overdoing it with its drive-thru clouds. )
There are a few nicer subs up near Volcano if you didn't mind a bit cooler than Puna. Royal Hawaiian Estates has County roads and electricity, not sure about County water. They're also close enough to Volcano and HVNP that you have places to go that aren't all that far away. You'll still need to drop down to Hilo occasionally to get supplies but you miss the traffic on the Keaau Pahoa highway.
There's also another fairly reasonable one just off the top of Oshiro road. I think it turns into Komo road or some such. Smaller lots, but seems a nice enough neighborhood. Royal Hawaiian Estates has smaller lots with larger ones behind on flag lots so you have choices.
Around Volcano itself are some nice areas, they get pretty artsy up at the volcano village area. Lots of B & Bs in the area, too, so that might be a business option.
But since you'll be renting for awhile, you'll be able to kick around and look at these different areas.
About lava holes, a flashback just hit me with the strength of a lightning. A returning vision I had for decades since I was a little kid is playing concerts in a big cave in Hawaii with visual effects, 3D projected holography and the like. (I'm a musician. With a degree and all.)
When I came to Oahu I checked the 2 big caves on the north shore right away - nope, it's not what I saw. I checked the Fern Grotto on Kauai - nope 2.
Something tells me (these dang hunches, again...) that Pele might one day reveal me one of her big lava holes on the Big Island. And it might turn out to be the concert cave I have been "seeing" since my early age. From thousands of miles away.
We'll see. Thank you, I'll be back to rational talk now. :-)
I guess when I'm deemed ready for it, the place will be revealed to me.
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