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Old 12-01-2020, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Birmingham, AL
2,448 posts, read 2,232,771 times
Reputation: 1059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcalumni01 View Post
"According to a 2020 study by UAB and REV Birmingham, there are 529 residential units in Parkside with 2,034 additional units planned or under construction."

That's just in the Parkside area. From the link in my previous post about Parkside Urban Supply development starting construction.
They must not be counting Flats on 4th as part of Parkside, because I get over 600 with LIV Parkside, The Venue, Flats on 4th and Denham.
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Old 12-01-2020, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Birmingham, AL
2,448 posts, read 2,232,771 times
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hell, by this graphic on the PARKSIDE website, it should include:

Existing Developments:
LIV Parkside
Venue at the Ballpark
Flats on 4th
Denham Building
20 Midtown (Phase 1)
University House

Future Developments:
Foundry Yards
Lumen (Bakers Row II)
The Marshall

that's 1400+ units (i'm not sure how many university house has)

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Old 12-01-2020, 04:01 PM
 
10,501 posts, read 7,037,424 times
Reputation: 32344
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimCity2000 View Post
hell, by this graphic on the PARKSIDE website, it should include:

Existing Developments:
LIV Parkside
Venue at the Ballpark
Flats on 4th
Denham Building
20 Midtown (Phase 1)
University House

Future Developments:
Foundry Yards
Lumen (Bakers Row II)
The Marshall

that's 1400+ units (i'm not sure how many university house has)

Okay. Assuming that 1,400+ count is correct, add 826 for Vesta, Break, and Midtown 3 (Which is right outside of the area defined in the graph), then that totals 2,226 right there.

So that blows past the most optimistic figure from 2018 absorption study. That doesn't even count the dozens of other smaller developments either underway or on the drawing boards.

No idea on what occupancy is. I think there will be a lag time between construction and fully being occupied.

Gleaning from the BBJ (https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingh...-projects.html), here's what I can add to the count:

Southtown -- 280 units
The 600 (Former ATT Building) -- 435 units
The Tracks -- 273 units
Red Cross Building -- 192 units
Railyard -- 135 units
Citizen -- 140
Birmingham Trades Tower -- 236

That's an additional 1,691 units for a total of 3,917 units. This doesn't include all the smaller-scale developments.

I know it's numbers crunching and the count could change. Question is, can the downtown area support this number? I think it can, but that depends on a lot going right.

Last edited by MinivanDriver; 12-01-2020 at 04:23 PM..
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Old 12-01-2020, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Birmingham, AL
2,448 posts, read 2,232,771 times
Reputation: 1059
long term development project in vestavia hills.

New details emerge about big development at Liberty Park



More details are emerging for the large mixed-use concept that has been in the works for Liberty Park for several years.

Representatives of Liberty Park Joint Venture LLP and its consultant Daniel Communities have been meeting with residents for the last four weeks to discuss plans for The Bray at Liberty Park, a large town center designed around common services and green space.

It’s an $858 million project that would include hospitality and entertainment, retail and commercial services, office, health care, greenspace, and several different residential offerings, including multifamily, active adult and senior housing, cottage and townhomes as well as single-family homes.

These various components are expected to be delivered over the next dozen years from 2022 to 2034. The commercial parcels will be sold to the end users.

John Bonanno, vice president at Liberty Park, Daniel Communities, said the joint venture brought in Daniel Communities to create a vision for the remaining 700 acres at Liberty Park.

“We have come in to help the partners revision that whole area,” Bonanno said. “We wanted to create more of a walkable town center that is focused first and foremost on a center — ‘Great Lawn’ we call it — for the community and some restaurant, retail, a boutique hotel, and some multifamily so that we have people to utilize and activate the retail components.”

After processing feedback from residents, Bonanno said the team will present its plans to the city as part of the approval process.

Residential and open space are being proposed for the majority of the 700 acres with the commercial and multifamily components planned for about 50 acres. The current residential component of Liberty Park sits on about 2,800 acres for a total of 3,500 acres for the entire development.

Back in the 90s, the project was envisioned as a regional mall with another interchange on Interstate 459. That changed with the development of The Summit, and now a much smaller commercial component is planned for Liberty Park.

“We’re creating a town center to have a much smaller commercial retail node that will support the rest of the residential,” Bonanno said.

Small retail parts of the project have already been completed, including the new Publix that recently opened on site as well as locations for Anytime Fitness and On Tap Sports Cafe.

The development is expected to generate more than $230 million in tax revenue for the city of Vestavia Hills with more than $117.9 million going to schools over the next 25 years.

Liberty Park Joint Venture LLP also requested preliminary plat approvals for The Bray Townhomes as well as The Brayfield Residential Phase 1 on South Liberty Park Road. The city of Vestavia Hills’ planning and zoning commission approved both items at its Nov. 12 meeting.

It’s a major project that will be joining several high-profile developments in the metro area that are forging ahead even as the local economy grapples with the fallout from the coronavirus pandemic.
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Old 12-01-2020, 04:22 PM
 
10,501 posts, read 7,037,424 times
Reputation: 32344
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimCity2000 View Post
long term development project in vestavia hills.

New details emerge about big development at Liberty Park



More details are emerging for the large mixed-use concept that has been in the works for Liberty Park for several years.

Representatives of Liberty Park Joint Venture LLP and its consultant Daniel Communities have been meeting with residents for the last four weeks to discuss plans for The Bray at Liberty Park, a large town center designed around common services and green space.

It’s an $858 million project that would include hospitality and entertainment, retail and commercial services, office, health care, greenspace, and several different residential offerings, including multifamily, active adult and senior housing, cottage and townhomes as well as single-family homes.

These various components are expected to be delivered over the next dozen years from 2022 to 2034. The commercial parcels will be sold to the end users.

John Bonanno, vice president at Liberty Park, Daniel Communities, said the joint venture brought in Daniel Communities to create a vision for the remaining 700 acres at Liberty Park.

“We have come in to help the partners revision that whole area,” Bonanno said. “We wanted to create more of a walkable town center that is focused first and foremost on a center — ‘Great Lawn’ we call it — for the community and some restaurant, retail, a boutique hotel, and some multifamily so that we have people to utilize and activate the retail components.”

After processing feedback from residents, Bonanno said the team will present its plans to the city as part of the approval process.

Residential and open space are being proposed for the majority of the 700 acres with the commercial and multifamily components planned for about 50 acres. The current residential component of Liberty Park sits on about 2,800 acres for a total of 3,500 acres for the entire development.

Back in the 90s, the project was envisioned as a regional mall with another interchange on Interstate 459. That changed with the development of The Summit, and now a much smaller commercial component is planned for Liberty Park.

“We’re creating a town center to have a much smaller commercial retail node that will support the rest of the residential,” Bonanno said.

Small retail parts of the project have already been completed, including the new Publix that recently opened on site as well as locations for Anytime Fitness and On Tap Sports Cafe.

The development is expected to generate more than $230 million in tax revenue for the city of Vestavia Hills with more than $117.9 million going to schools over the next 25 years.

Liberty Park Joint Venture LLP also requested preliminary plat approvals for The Bray Townhomes as well as The Brayfield Residential Phase 1 on South Liberty Park Road. The city of Vestavia Hills’ planning and zoning commission approved both items at its Nov. 12 meeting.

It’s a major project that will be joining several high-profile developments in the metro area that are forging ahead even as the local economy grapples with the fallout from the coronavirus pandemic.

I think the local economy is likely better positioned than other markets. The next several years will be interesting to be sure. If anything, Birmingham has been grappling with a housing shortage of late with tight inventories all around.
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Old 12-01-2020, 05:23 PM
 
Location: 35203
2,098 posts, read 2,168,747 times
Reputation: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
Okay. Assuming that 1,400+ count is correct, add 826 for Vesta, Break, and Midtown 3 (Which is right outside of the area defined in the graph), then that totals 2,226 right there.

So that blows past the most optimistic figure from 2018 absorption study. That doesn't even count the dozens of other smaller developments either underway or on the drawing boards.

No idea on what occupancy is. I think there will be a lag time between construction and fully being occupied.

Gleaning from the BBJ (https://www.bizjournals.com/birmingh...-projects.html), here's what I can add to the count:

Southtown -- 280 units
The 600 (Former ATT Building) -- 435 units
The Tracks -- 273 units
Red Cross Building -- 192 units
Railyard -- 135 units
Citizen -- 140
Birmingham Trades Tower -- 236

That's an additional 1,691 units for a total of 3,917 units. This doesn't include all the smaller-scale developments.

I know it's numbers crunching and the count could change. Question is, can the downtown area support this number? I think it can, but that depends on a lot going right.
American Life building - 140 units
Lakeview Green - 103 units
Avondale apartments development - 96 units
Armour & Co. building - 24 units
Apartments being built on 13th and 5th ave south - 169 units
Northside Park (Carraway) - 440 units
American Life building (Phase 2) - 350 units
The Palmer (Behind Region Field on 3rd Ave) - 228 units

Last edited by mcalumni01; 12-01-2020 at 06:51 PM..
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Old 12-01-2020, 06:52 PM
 
10,501 posts, read 7,037,424 times
Reputation: 32344
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcalumni01 View Post
American Life building - 140 units
Lakeview Green - 103 units
Avondale apartments development - 96 units
Armour & Co. building - 24 units
Apartments being built on 13th and 5th ave south - 169 units
Northside Park (Carraway) - 440 units
American Life building (Phase 2) - 350 units
The Palmer (Behind Region Field on 3rd Ave - 228 units

That makes the count 5,239. That's a lot of units.
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Old 12-01-2020, 07:13 PM
 
Location: 35203
2,098 posts, read 2,168,747 times
Reputation: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
That makes the count 5,239. That's a lot of units.
That's why the entertainment part of that area will be critical in the next few years. Those that's perhaps will be living in those units are going to want to be around entertainment. Region Field, Railroad Park, Powell, the Parkside East/West development are huge, but getting more restaurants, bars, nightlife options should be more of a focus now.
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Old 12-01-2020, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Birmingham, AL
2,448 posts, read 2,232,771 times
Reputation: 1059
Quote:
Originally Posted by MinivanDriver View Post
That makes the count 5,239. That's a lot of units.
i forgot a big one... the Daniel Parkside development. 228 units.

plus all the dozens of smaller developments (under 50 units) like macaroni lofts, avenue a, new ideal, the dagny, etc.
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Old 12-02-2020, 05:48 AM
 
10,501 posts, read 7,037,424 times
Reputation: 32344
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimCity2000 View Post
i forgot a big one... the Daniel Parkside development. 228 units.

plus all the dozens of smaller developments (under 50 units) like macaroni lofts, avenue a, new ideal, the dagny, etc.

So let's call it 5,800-6,000 units in the downtown area. Let's assume 1.5 occupants per unit just as a WAG. That's 8,700-9,000 new residents to downtown since 2018. That's essentially a smaller suburb picking up and transplanting downtown.


All of which begs the question of absorption. I think you guys know me well enough to know that I'm pretty optimistic about the city. But I would really be interested in seeing the individual studies. After all, a bank isn't handing out millions in construction loans based on wishful thinking--especially given tighter post-2008 guidelines.



So, yes, the new construction excites me. At the same time, it might take a while to fill these up. McAlumni's point is well-taken. For it to attain critical mass, there needs to be an accompanying system in place in terms of retail, dining, and entertainment.

Last edited by MinivanDriver; 12-02-2020 at 06:11 AM..
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