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You fail to understand that its not just you. The economy is limping along and true employment is a joke. Net disposable income has been and remains at 50 year lows. Everyone is working for less not more. The average American is getting squeezed on all sides. The Heath care has gone up dramatically and will continue to do so. So has everything else. It's called stagflation. The average wage comparisons goes back to the 1970's. So you think the solution is to mandate an hourly wage of 15 or 20 dollars an hour? You have no idea what these ramifications would be through the Idaho economy.
That 15 or 20 dollars an hour would simply be passed off to the consumer and you would be right back to where you are now. Rents would be 1500 a month for a 1 bedroom. A hamburger or a sandwich would be 10 dollars.
IMO the only way to take advantage of any perceived cost differentials is to move to ID from another state with equity...or to be wealthy from the get-go, and either pay off, or nearly pay off your house and then struggle to stay afloat and meet running costs. In studying the wages versus cost of goods I don't see how the average/native Boisean can move on up without some huge breaks/luck/hardwork.
It is the same situation in California but with all the wages and house prices hyper-inflated. Who the hell cares if you making $100k/year if your house costs $800k? Crappy hillbilly shacks where I grew up, once a remote and sketchy area, now go for $500k. There is no where to run to. Raise the pay in Boise and watch the same thing happen, just not to such retarded dramatic scales.
So in Boise, who cares if the houses only cost $150k if your only making $12/hour?
The running expenses don't appear to be that much of a huge disparity with some notable exceptions.
Raising the minimum wage will eventually only increase the cost of every day consumables, then housing etc, as people can/will pay more.
With increased wages come increased costs. Been treading that water for over a decade in my region. About ready to swim away.
Of course there are other trade-offs. In Cali the mileage tax is coming, the bridge tolls are increasing, the Gov is bringing in the Feds to help chase down tax-evaders, the non-bullet train to nowhere is sucking tax money, Common Core is extending its reach into all aspects of alternative education...I could go on.
My perspective for what its worth.
Good points.
I don't think it's as hard for the average Boisean to stay afloat in Boise as it is for the average Californian in spite of the wage gap... YET. There is higher pay and more opportunity in California, to be sure, but it's tempered with higher housing costs and more than likely longer commutes, higher day care costs, etc.
You raise what is to me the most important point, and elephant in the room with regard to the wage gap: the equity rich, wealthy, and/or retirees.
Each of these that come into Boise will raise the cost of housing and push down wages. Equity rich can afford more home, drive up prices in bidding wars, and, as you point out, because their house is substantially paid for, they don't need to be paid higher wages. They can "retire down" into a job, can usually offer more experience for lower pay. That's hard to beat for an employer.
Retirees, for all of the benefits they may provide an economy, also may drive up the cost of housing (in some cases) but because they don't enter the work force they don't affect wage growth, and typically require more service level jobs anyway. In other words, being a retirement destination usually doesn't bring in manufacturing, tech, or other white or blue collar jobs that may pay higher wages. On the other hand, they will cause more demand for health care and nursing type jobs, so there is that.
I think you'll see Boise start to experience a sort of gentrification that other larger cities - LA, SF, Seattle, et al, have experienced decades ago.. where the working class and lower income people are driving further and further away from their jobs. You already see it now with those groups living in Kuna, Nampa, Caldwell, etc. But I think that's different about here is just how isolated we are, and there's only so far they can go to find cheaper housing. Whereas almost every other major metro area butts up to other major metro areas (Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia/Bellingham; LA/Orange County/SB/San Diego, even SLC/Ogden/Provo).
I do agree that driving up the minimum wage only kicks affordability problems around and doesn't really solve anything.
I don't see a higher mandated minimum wage as a plus for either employer or employee. If your skills or education level are not worth that pay to an employer, then they lose money by hiring you. They are not going to pay $15/hr to merely have a semi-warm body standing about. That situation is seriously acute down here. People that have no talent, no skills, no education think they should receive $15/hr just to be there.
My personal belief is that minimum wage is a starting/learning wage, NOT a living wage. If you work for minimum wage more than a month and have any skills or haven't learned anything, you need to look in the mirror for the problem. You have to be able to provide value to the employer for the pay.
When I first came out there from TX I applied for a job. The shop owner was a little hesitant, even though I had certificates attesting to my qualifications. I told him I would work for a week for nothing. If, at the end of that time, he didn't think I was good for the job, I was down the road. Three days later I was hired for more money than the original agreement.
I'll try to avoid getting too off topic with the min wage debate but I don't see any correlation between min wage and housing. The min wage in California is $9/hour. The $15 wage that people keeping referencing and many cite as a reason SoCal is expensive is not in effect yet. Housing has always been expensive here and has nothing to do with the min wage.
You fail to understand that its not just you. The economy is limping along and true employment is a joke. Net disposable income has been and remains at 50 year lows. Everyone is working for less not more. The average American is getting squeezed on all sides. The Heath care has gone up dramatically and will continue to do so. So has everything else. It's called stagflation. The average wage comparisons goes back to the 1970's. So you think the solution is to mandate an hourly wage of 15 or 20 dollars an hour? You have no idea what these ramifications would be through the Idaho economy.
That 15 or 20 dollars an hour would simply be passed off to the consumer and you would be right back to where you are now. Rents would be 1500 a month for a 1 bedroom. A hamburger or a sandwich would be 10 dollars.
Not sure if you're talking to me or the OP, but I made no mention of wanting wages raised. Whether I agree with that or not isn't even my point. Grass-isn't-greener stories need to be more prominent in this forum amongst the Boise-as-Shangri-La stories to provide some levity and make prospective movers better informed on their decision. As cheaper as certain major expenses are in Boise, the day-to-day or monthly expenses aren't really significantly better, and in some cases were worse for me. And when you're only making half of the salary you're used to, that added up over the seven years I was there. That's what I'd want people inquiring about Boise to be aware of.
Making twice as much as what I did in Boise will go farther for me despite the higher cost of living. I'm not buying a house and my possessions are few as I prefer to stay portable in case a good job offer comes up outside L.A. or back in East Asia. A bachelor pad or a room in a home fits perfectly for me, and rent for me isn't double of what it is in Boise. The only thing that affects me that's roughly double of Boise is having the same auto insurance coverage. Otherwise, as much as I could balk about various taxes or gas or grocery prices in L.A., I can still not only get by but save some of my earnings again as well. A family has a higher likelihood of seeing things differently given their expenses. But for me, leaving was a no-brainer, both financially and the fact that the explorer in me could no longer see myself living in the area permanently to begin with barring settling down with someone.
.....and there are plenty of us who live and work in Boise and get by just fine, make a living wage, save up money for the future, etc, etc. Much like the rest of the nation.
Problem is only an extremely (and I mean extremely in the most extreme sense of the word ) small percentage of those of us who fall into this category participate at City-Data.com.
**disclaimer: just trying to add some balance to the thread.
I don't think it's as hard for the average Boisean to stay afloat in Boise as it is for the average Californian in spite of the wage gap... YET. There is higher pay and more opportunity in California, to be sure, but it's tempered with higher housing costs and more than likely longer commutes, higher day care costs, etc.
You raise what is to me the most important point, and elephant in the room with regard to the wage gap: the equity rich, wealthy, and/or retirees.
Each of these that come into Boise will raise the cost of housing and push down wages. Equity rich can afford more home, drive up prices in bidding wars, and, as you point out, because their house is substantially paid for, they don't need to be paid higher wages. They can "retire down" into a job, can usually offer more experience for lower pay. That's hard to beat for an employer.
Retirees, for all of the benefits they may provide an economy, also may drive up the cost of housing (in some cases) but because they don't enter the work force they don't affect wage growth, and typically require more service level jobs anyway. In other words, being a retirement destination usually doesn't bring in manufacturing, tech, or other white or blue collar jobs that may pay higher wages. On the other hand, they will cause more demand for health care and nursing type jobs, so there is that.
I think you'll see Boise start to experience a sort of gentrification that other larger cities - LA, SF, Seattle, et al, have experienced decades ago.. where the working class and lower income people are driving further and further away from their jobs. You already see it now with those groups living in Kuna, Nampa, Caldwell, etc. But I think that's different about here is just how isolated we are, and there's only so far they can go to find cheaper housing. Whereas almost every other major metro area butts up to other major metro areas (Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia/Bellingham; LA/Orange County/SB/San Diego, even SLC/Ogden/Provo).
I do agree that driving up the minimum wage only kicks affordability problems around and doesn't really solve anything.
Its an "interesting" time in regards to retirees right now. As we've all hear the baby-boomers are retiring en masse and the next generation is not far behind. Heck I've got a buddy in his mid-40's who is a cop and is set to retire in about 7 years. Done and done with a gigantic annual retirement pay he can take anywhere.
When I look at any of the remote areas of Nor Cal that I might want to live the housing is driven up like crazy already due to retirees and folks working from home. There is no way to earn local wages to complete. You just cannot commute far enough to "win" in terms of costs vs. wages. This was not the case in previous decades.
Silicon Valley brought in jobs and increased wages starting way back in the early 90's. Suddenly people were willing to commute far longer distances and most of those little pockets of affordable housing got inundated with big earners. Then exposed to their friends and associates. There are no more secrets.
My in-laws bought their house 20 miles north of SF way back in the late 60's for next to nothing...20 miles. Their friends thought they were nuts for living "way out there". I commute 70 miles each way every day past their house and beyond...and were still not "way out there". Its freaking nuts.
Ergo, we look elsewhere.
One thing I see as a possible silent benefit of the Boise economy would be that any additional incremental pay would help in real ways. In California $200 extra per month is like a fart in the wind, barely helpful at all and gets lost in the myriad of onslaught of bills, rising tolls and so forth. depending on the COL positioning in Boise that kind of additional income would be helpful. Maybe a side job or sommat...you know, those retirees all need their houses cleaned and stuff
Yeah, I'm always surprised when I see these polls that Boise is over the national COL average. I think Boise is extremely cheap. Hubby and I spend about $22k or so a year total, including the mortgage on our 2/2 townhouse. Once that is paid off, we'll only be spending about $13-14k a year. That is for 2 people. You'd be hard pressed to find too many places in the US you can do that, let alone in any significant city.
We don't cut coupons except on rare occasion, we don't have any government support (housing assistance, food stamps, etc), we go out to dinner when we want to, we go on vacation when we want to, we have 2 cars in excellent condition, we have nice furniture, a 60" TV, and at last count 4 computers. We keep the house at 74 year round (so not super warm or super cold). We have 2 cats. So it isn't like we are living some extreme cheap lifestyle where we deprive ourselves of everything fun. Boise seems pretty inexpensive to me.
And on top of all this inexpensive living, we get the benefit of living in this beautiful city.
The ratios change if you are Single, or if you are a Family of 4, but I still think you are better off in Boise than most other places in the country.
I disagree Lacerta. I think you and your husband could afford to live on that amount in most places in the US - you'd just have to avoid the coasts, larger cities, and resort areas.
My SO and I are getting to that same point as you - we've recently been able to pay off most of our large expenses, and we've doing some remodeling on our house, and once that is done and paid off we'll have our mortgage and utilities, food, and some other items, and we'll be about $2k per month, living large. $24k per year. But I think we could do that just about anywhere, frankly.
.....and there are plenty of us who live and work in Boise and get by just fine, make a living wage, save up money for the future, etc, etc. Much like the rest of the nation.
Problem is only an extremely (and I mean extremely in the most extreme sense of the word ) small percentage of those of us who fall into this category participate at City-Data.com.
**disclaimer: just trying to add some balance to the thread.
Other people have said this outside of this particular thread. Discounting them isn't adding balance. I mean there are statistics that show Boise has low wages and cost of living is about average and the COL is mostly low for housing alone. That's not anecdotal. I am FROM Boise and have HS friends in Boise. Those that have stayed aren't well off, none of them own homes unless their parents bought outright or assisted. But apparently my graduating class is an EXTREMELY small sampling. It isn't any different in California for locals really. I also have friends that have moved from Boise to LA and they're much more successful here because the same job in Boise would pay nothing or simply doesn't exist. So, Ramenfan, myself and the numerous others I know are not an EXTREMELY small sampling.
And the quote "much like the rest of the nation" - millenials don't have savings or retirement. Again, it is the same in Idaho and California. Statistics show this. I think that was the point of this thread. It is getting difficult everywhere and moving to Boise may not be financially sound for a sizable group of people even if they're in the minority.
I do agree that some families that live in particularly bad parts of California or other high expense place where it is still expensive coupled with low wages and crime should think about moving someplace else like Boise. While they may not have anymore cash at the end of the month there kids won't be shot at.
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