Nightlife in Boston (New Bedford, Fall River, Lawrence: for rent, crime rates, dorms)

[msRB311]

Yeah most people who need to be out past 2am should probably rethink their lifestyle.

I don't have much dog in this fight but it seems like trying to get bars to stay open later shouldnt be a priority for the city.

[id77]

Originally Posted by massnative71

I'm for more things being open a little later in select areas of the city, if there is demand. But to say Boston isn't as wealthy and educated as it could be, because the bars aren't open till 4am??? COME ON.

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

It's about alcohol, and it's about alcohol after 0200. There is little stopping IHOP's and other establishments from late night hours in areas that are conducive. We've had many. Many have closed earlier for business reasons. Others have curtailed hours due to community complaints about noise and disruptive behavior. The group who has consistently complained the loudest - pardon the pun - over the last couple decades has been younger professional newcomers in residential city neighborhoods such as North, South and West End and they have often gotten their way. Those who show up to community meetings and are active in political affairs get heard.

What kind of bizarro world thread is this where I agree with both of you?

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by bostongymjunkie

All kinds of confounding factors could be in play here. Weather, housing costs, culture, desirable suburbs, the list goes on and yet you point to liquor licenses. You're the Master of pointing to things that correlate and implying causation without any substantive research. What's clear, though, is your demonstrated and committed support for mass citywide gentrification and continued elimination of racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic diversity in the city. You push these policies out of one side of your mouth, while feigning concern for the fact that working and lower class minorities can't afford it here our of the other side. I think you really have no concern for those interests and no concern for true diversity and you demonstrate disdain for those who are different. I think you really want the city to be a playground for privileged globalist "young professionals" like yourself.

The city and business community believes there’s correlation, anecdotally there is correlation. Correlation isn’t causation but it’s is something. This would be a priority for the city if it didn’t matter at all. The truth is it DOES matter.

Youre listing lot of potential variables Andover don’t think any of them make sense. But despite them all being proven wrong in one city or the other- the thing that is consistent is Boston comes up in the bottom 2. without a deep drive we can see strip coins (Portland) late night hours (dc) and weed shops (Denver) don’t deter you from having a wealthy educated city. We also see in NYC/NJit’s not necessarily going to lead to a higher Homicide rate or violent crime rate…even a city with worse weather like Minneapolis has slightly more college grads than us.


At some point you’ve got to ask why, right? You honestly think nightlife honestly has nothing to do with it?



You don’t have to take my word with it, I’m not alone and any comment section or “ask the mayor” segment will confirm as much. Everyone knows this to be a negative in our reputation. Very very few people go “there was very little night life- I love it” for a city trying to be seen as one of the ‘big boys’ this is essential. If it weren’t they wouldn’t be this careful yet vocal about the new hire and push for a 24/7 Downtown.

You’re very melodramatic in regards to gentrification. I could get into that but it’s not interesting to me. I’m just speaking about the impetus behind this. And what I heard.

The most valid concerns here, one that is shared by Idowu, is staffing- will establishments be able to staff these establishments an extra two hours and will there be enough businesses willing and able to stay open later that sustained for traffic can be reliable and thus enticing food places to stay open. This is where Sheena Colliers bit cones into play- information about what’s open is vital in Boston, so people know the city offers xyz and xyz hour. A lack of information and awareness studies late night T. That and gaining trust from wealthier/older residents that the city isn’t trying to be New Orleans.

[BostonBornMassMade]

You are very wrong that if you don’t need a license you can stay open as late as you want.

That failed with a Burger King in Hyde Park on River Street

Mooyah Burger Downtown

A Pizza Place in Andrew Square

And *many* other businesses from taco shops to anything else. All have to scale back hours due to neighborhood group opposition. Which simply isn’t a representative cross section of their neighborhoods.

Last cal should be moved, but as the original article states this also mean more late night food. Indeed there is a LOT stopping businesses from being able to serve as late as they want. I remember Alex’s in the south end tried to serve to 4 am and the city was like “no 330 am”. For what reason I am not sure. But it’s that needless type of stuff that occurs daily in the licensing board. I don’t get how or why they can determine your hours of business but they do.



People generally do not appreciate the lack of options the city affords them (we live in a convenience society, especially younger professionals) and it pushes many young people with options to more permissive cities where their days and nights do not feel truncated. It creates an artificial lack and wanting that only people without the option to move or who genuinely don’t mind feel they should put up with.

When this topic come up in Reddit it’s nothing but bemoaning the lack of later night this and that. Comments on this board which skews very old and suburban are not a good gauge of overall sentiment.

[mdovell]

Of course there's also this

https://commonwealthmagazine.org/eco...ban-doom-loop/

"At the end of 2022, the office vacancy rate in Boston stood at 17.6 percent, “the highest on record,” said Jeffrey Myers, research director in the Boston office of the real estate firm Colliers. That figure masks an even bigger problem in Class B office space, where the vacancy rate was a whopping 23.6 percent. In more desirable Class A space, generally in newer towers with higher-end amenities, the vacancy rate stood at 15.5 percent.

If downtown Boston’s streets remain eerily quiet it’s because the amount of vacant space on the market represents only a fraction of the office suites that are actually empty in buildings.

Occupancy rates on any given day in Boston office buildings are just 30 to 50 percent, said Tyler McGrail, executive managing director of the Boston office of the commercial real estate firm Newmark, during a market forecast presentation last month sponsored by NAIOP. A recent city report said downtown foot traffic is 55 percent below its pre-pandemic levels.

To make a business pay anything extra (unless you want a shift from the day) you have to have more profit and how is that supposed to happen given that it hasn't fully recovered post covid? If your offices are at best 50% occupied and pedestrian traffic down 45% obviously shops, restaurants and hotels are not going to have incentives to change. Dealing with small businesses is like inviting people to a party. No one wants to be the first to do something or the only one.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Not following you if traffic is low during business hours what’s that have to do with nightlife?

Furthermore if your foot traffic in a given area is low, you’re going to try to increase it. Which has been discussed by the mayor ad nauseam when it comes to her vision of a 24/7 hour downtown, and more vibrant nightlife. Every drink sold is taxed by the City of Boston.

In general I understand your early adapter concept, of course. But this isn’t an overnight process. This involves a cultural shift and licensing shift, that will take years to bear fruit.


My thing is people on this board can’t seriously think they know more about why nightlife is important to retaining young educated workers than the city itself and the corporate types who run the establishments, can they? We’ve heard it, we can kind of sort of see it in the demography and we know it’s a thorn in the side to many people in Boston and environs. Just because it’s not what some posters think a noble goal doesn’t mean there’s no truth to it and the city shouldn’t care about the concerns of thousands of others.

Marty Walsh was pushing for more liquor licenses (175 more) before he left office. Why do we think that is? Because it’s ‘fun’ to get involved in an uphill battle with the statehouse? No, there’s logic behind it. There’s a reason this has been a sustained effort for a decade now- even from a mayor who doesn’t drink. Quietly Ruthzee Loujenne and Brian Worrell have been in this since they’ve taken office.

[bostongymjunkie]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

You’re very melodramatic in regards to gentrification. I could get into that but it’s not interesting to me. I’m just speaking about the impetus behind this. And what I heard.

That's obvious. Ironically, though, gentrification lies at the very heart of what you're complaining about. The gritty and bustling late-night city charm Boston once had has been replaced with a big suburb. It's very difficult to have both without proper planning, which hasn't been the case. Too late to close the barn door now and unfair to residents to subject them to disorder.

[Boston Shudra]

I was in Japan earlier this year. What was really great about their nightlife was in addition to later close times for bars/cubs was the 24hr karaoke places. You could stay at the bar until it closes then grab some drinks/snacks from a convenience store, bring them to karaoke, and rent a room there until the trains open back up.

Would be wicked fun if you could do the same thing here!

[mdovell]

Technically according to the MAPC the youngest average age in the state is in Amherst and yet there's really no push there for nightlife. Retaining young people for what though? Low paid internships? It's not like people go to school in boston and then actually buy a house in boston, the prices are way too high for that and even the suburbs. Other gateway cities sure but it's been awhile since my degrees (AS 2000, BS 2010, MS 2012) but most left afterwards. If someone is on a student visa they can't exactly stay beyond their visa. If they are a H1B they have to always have a job so it's a non starter.

Boston traps people into renting at this point. If you want to go out and drink and go to small concerts and sports that's fine but that gets old after a few years. If they bought back happy hour maybe that could start a bit but saving $4 on a manhattan isn't exactly earth shattering. What's next...bringing back the combat zone? I doubt that. The heavy drinking days is what led to Boston First Night. Dry January was last month..

We also have to keep in mind that the college campuses today and dorms are much better than that of generations ago. So if they want to party where they are what's the incentive to go out if there's no sports or concert that late at night?

If boston was isolated maybe the argument would hold. It's not hard to get in or out of boston so the idea of scarcity isn't there. Obviously you can sell a major sports or music concert but most beers pretty much can be found everywhere. I like small bars and clubs as well but the scene has changed.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/11/...gets-makeover/

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by Boston Shudra

I was in Japan earlier this year. What was really great about their nightlife was in addition to later close times for bars/cubs was the 24hr karaoke places. You could stay at the bar until it closes then grab some drinks/snacks from a convenience store, bring them to karaoke, and rent a room there until the trains open back up.

Would be wicked fun if you could do the same thing here!

But hold on

we all now Japan is full of irresponsible 15-28 years olds committing crime because it has businesses and districts opens after 2 am /s

Oh, and You are a developing addict who needs to get your priorities in order. /s