Are we finally headed in the right direction? (transportation) (Boston: median income, discount)

[Amontillado]

I'm fine with all of that if we have a good alternative in place for those who can't or don't want to pay hundreds more. But until we do, it's not fair to impart some or all of that on commuters.

I think it absolutely is fair to charge commuters! Who else is clogging up our roads? If some expensive new stuff needs to be built, let's not try and say the problem is caused by some bunch of outsiders.

There's an article in the Globe today, but I don't see any wonderful insights there (because everything important about it is obvious, maybe):
https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...tlight-traffic

The only solution must have the form "Fewer people must attempt to drive on our roads, especially in or out of Boston at rush hour." Don't look for new roads; the time for that ended decades ago. And it can't be "Let's have the roads cleared so that I personally can get where I want to go, when I want to go there, without delays." If we want to be realistic, it's got to be "What will get me out of my car?"

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Amontillado

The only solution must have the form "Fewer people must attempt to drive on our roads, especially in or out of Boston at rush hour." Don't look for new roads; the time for that ended decades ago. And it can't be "Let's have the roads cleared so that I personally can get where I want to go, when I want to go there, without delays." If we want to be realistic, it's got to be "What will get me out of my car?"

That was their point though. Yeah, you want to get people out of their cars. That is the goal. You need something to get them into though, which will require significant investment.


We've become so right wing though that politicians are terrified of saying "we need to raise taxes to pay for this", especially since you have the overwhelming pro big business center right media controlling the narratives, and loud mouths clueless-ly going on about "lets cut the wasteful spending" and "lets attack fraud, then we'd have enough!" It's the problem when the uniformed have such large pulpits in the public discourse.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

That was their point though. Yeah, you want to get people out of their cars. That is the goal. You need something to get them into though, which will require significant investment.


We've become so right wing though that politicians are terrified of saying "we need to raise taxes to pay for this", especially since you have the overwhelming pro big business center right media controlling the narratives, and loud mouths clueless-ly going on about "lets cut the wasteful spending" and "lets attack fraud, then we'd have enough!" It's the problem when the uniformed have such large pulpits in the public discourse.

You mean like the Boston Globe? Your constant politicizing everything is becoming very tired and played out. Find a new MO.

[BostonBornMassMade]

I wouldnt say its weve become so right wing-we havent. We've just become very corporate neoliberal democrat to a fault.


The good thing about blue union democrats was that they were all in on public works expenditure-we as a nation and as a state have gotten away from that

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

I wouldnt say its weve become so right wing-we havent. We've just become very corporate neoliberal democrat to a fault.


The good thing about blue union democrats was that they were all in on public works expenditure-we as a nation and as a state have gotten away from that

That's a right wing political view if one looks at it through a western political culture lens. It's pro big business, not pro union (except lip service around elections), pro policies that concentrate wealth to the top (though slightly more generous with the crumbs that will fall out), pro laissez faire economy.


Make no mistake, neoliberal democrats are right wing. They're really hard to tell apart from, when you look at their policies (not their rhetoric), from 70s Republicans. It pushed the Dems (~post Carter) from the "American left" (centrist) further to the right, while the Republicans (post Southern Strategy Republicans) even went further to the right (far right).

We've gotten away from most things that made us prosperous, such as a really progressive tax rate, workers unions, investment in infrastructure and people's willingness to invest in it as it helped everyone.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by timberline742

That's a right wing political view if one looks at it through a western political culture lens. It's pro big business, not pro union (except lip service around elections), pro policies that concentrate wealth to the top (though slightly more generous with the crumbs that will fall out), pro laissez faire economy.


Make no mistake, neoliberal democrats are right wing. They're really hard to tell apart from, when you look at their policies (not their rhetoric), from 70s Republicans. It pushed the Dems (~post Carter) from the "American left" (centrist) further to the right, while the Republicans (post Southern Strategy Republicans) even went further to the right (far right).

We've gotten away from most things that made us prosperous, such as a really progressive tax rate, workers unions, investment in infrastructure and people's willingness to invest in it as it helped everyone.

No argument there.

[Bridge781]

Allowing people to work from home if they choose would solve much of the traffic problem

It’s not just commuters causing traffic going to work. How about parents and school buses taking kids to school? Kids have to be in school.

The problem is that everyone in the morning is rushing to be somewhere at 8 or 9. Why oh why more companies don’t suggest more employees work from home to avoid creating more traffic is beyond me. Seems like a no brainer.

Or maybe companies should shorten their workday. Have certain people on at 11 out at 3:30pm.

[id77]

Originally Posted by Bridge781

Allowing people to work from home if they choose would solve much of the traffic problem

It’s not just commuters causing traffic going to work. How about parents and school buses taking kids to school? Kids have to be in school.

The problem is that everyone in the morning is rushing to be somewhere at 8 or 9. Why oh why more companies don’t suggest more employees work from home to avoid creating more traffic is beyond me. Seems like a no brainer.

Or maybe companies should shorten their workday. Have certain people on at 11 out at 3:30pm.

This would help, though only a little. You still have:

- A lot of people who come in to work jobs that require a physical presence. Retail/food services, construction/maintenance, teachers, etc can't do their jobs remotely.

- Even if car travel is slightly less convenient than mass transit, people will still prefer it because there's a pervasive mindset in this country that private transit good, public transit bad. Some will cry that the T breaks, or smells, or is too slow, or attracts bad people, or some other BS reason rather than trying to improve it. Driving in a car means they don't have to sit next to a stinky bum on a train or listen to people they don't want to listen to or park closer to where they're going than mass transit allows or walk more than a quarter mile because we wouldn't want them being healthy or anything. People would rather idle in the tunnel for 30 minutes than idle at North Station for 30 minutes waiting for a train. Go figure.

- You still have to contend with non-workers coming into the city for leisure with the same mentality on convenience as above.

The key to making this work is you have to make car travel, and particularly solo car travel, in and out of the city during rush hour painful, while at the same time making public transit and carpooling less painful. Enact tolls to enter the city that are sufficient to drive non-residents to seek alternate means. Add more HOV lanes by further reducing regular lanes (i.e., this is a zero-sum move) during rush hour -- and enforce it. Stuff like that will reduce car volume, but it will also make people who vote howl enough to scare people that legislate away from doing anything close to effective.

I also think there already is a fair amount of time staggering as you suggest. A lot of people head in early and a lot head in late to "avoid the rush". The result has been that rush hour is now rush 3-hours because the volume of people coming via 1-person-per-car is just that high.

[Bridge781]

Oh yeah there’s definitely too many cars in the road. I went to Logan at 5am not long ago and was shocked that there was stillll traffic. I guess Boston is also a city that doesn’t sleep. Uber doesn’t help either.

[darkone]

Boston is a city, right? Metro Boston is home to 5 million people, correct? The broader CSA, stretching to Providence, Worcester and Southern NH, 7.5 million ... Just under half that of greater LA. Why shouldn’t traffic be an issue here? Shouldn’t it be accepted as normal?