Boston Racial Stigma- is it "cool" to hate on Boston? (Plymouth: racism, inclusive)

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by 908Boi

I’ll be honest I have no idea what most of the things you listed are and I suspect most black Americans especially those younger than me also don’t know much about those things/people.

The NBA all star game in 2026 can be a game changer if it goes well. These days if boatloads of black families aren’t moving somewhere (or aren’t already present) then black folks aren’t going to pay attention to that city unless rap/sports/entertainment are involved.

The black population in the Boston MSA is roughly 364k and 7.4% of the total Boston MSA. That’s relatively small considering it’s a top ten MSA in the country by population.

I generally agree with you that Boston’s rep amongst black folks probably won’t changed much. It just doesn’t have enough to appeal to the average black American. But look at a place like Toronto. Drake almost by himself lol, made that city “cool”. And I’m pretty sure toronto is less black than Boston.

But the MSA can be 512k when you use the more inclusive terms (including Hispanic, and mixed race) and 10.5% black. The state of MA is 10.1% black under most inclusive terms. https://data.census.gov/table?g=310X...SDP1Y2021.DP05

When you eliminate New Hampshire that goes over 11%

The Boston Metro Division (The southern half of the metro, including Suffolk Norfolk and Plymouth Counties) is 16.7% Black in the most inclusive terms. 340,970 identifying as black out of 2,040,652 https://data.census.gov/table?g=323X...T5Y2021.B02001

^This essentially is the same breakdown as the Milwaukee MSA. In comparison, Toronto is about 9.6% Black for its 2,794,356 people.... 265,005.

A lot of it stems from the fact that Black people in Bosotn are generally:


Children of Immigrants (not much ties to the south)
Immigrants (not much ties to anywhere here)
Speak a language other than English
Never Leave Boston (very very common)
Highly Professional or Academic (thus run in small circles, and not terribly influential in culture)
Looking to Move
Hispanic (often not considered black)
Cape Verdean (generally confusing to Black people not from Boston)

Even with the more conservative measure- There are many places with less than 364k blacks that are not considered hostile to black people or move without a negative reputation, or that have more room in that black cognizant.

[missionhill]

Originally Posted by Space_League

There aren't as many gated communities as you get in other parts of the country.A lot of upper middle class people not living in gated or secured properties, just regular houses on a street. In places like Phoenix, Dallas etc you will see more walled off fully secure zones for upper income folks to stay safe from the streets.

I can't think of even one gated community in or around Boston. There are private streets with unwelcoming "private drive" signs but actual gates? There's plenty of property crime but gated communities aren't really a thing around Boston. Maybe secure individual buildings like in New York where the doorman will call up to the apartment you're visiting before allowing you into the building.

Originally Posted by Space_League

within the cit of Boston itself ... there are still big projects in yuppie parts of South End and Jamaica Plain. There are still rich people living in Dorchester 2 streets from the hood.

Yep, it's all mixed up within city limits except that what some of us like to call Boston 'proper' is pretty uniformly affluent now. Professionals and other affluent people can travel to and from Boston from Cambridge, Brookline, Newton, etc., without passing through any rougher areas. To a visitor moving between downtown, Back Bay, Cambridge, etc., Boston can seem much whiter and richer than it is.

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by missionhill

I can't think of even one gated community in or around Boston. There are private streets with unwelcoming "private drive" signs but actual gates? There's plenty of property crime but gated communities aren't really a thing around Boston. Maybe secure individual buildings like in New York where the doorman will call up to the apartment you're visiting before allowing you into the building.

You don’t need actual gates when zoning and generational wealth do all the heavy lifting for you.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by Boston Shudra

You don’t need actual gates when zoning and generational wealth do all the heavy lifting for you.

It’s mostly the housing stock is old. Not that many 80s subdivisions in Metro Boston.

It’s not like Cleveland has a bunch of gated communities despite its affluent suburbs being much more assessable for the working class.

Same reason HOA’s are rare. No virgin land in 1955

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

It’s mostly the housing stock is old. Not that many 80s subdivisions in Metro Boston.

It’s not like Cleveland has a bunch of gated communities despite its affluent suburbs being much more assessable for the working class.

Same reason HOA’s are rare. No virgin land in 1955

Err. Most of the metro outside 128 was pretty rural in 1955. It’s why all the minicomputer companies of the 1970s located out on 495. Cheap land. Their employees could afford new construction single family homes. There are no HOAs in metro Boston because towns are autonomous with their own schools, police, and fire. An HOA is unnecessary. You use zoning and town ordinances. In places with strong county government, you have HOA to do that.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Err. Most of the metro outside 128 was pretty rural in 1955. It’s why all the minicomputer companies of the 1970s located out on 495. Cheap land. Their employees could afford new construction single family homes. There are no HOAs in metro Boston because towns are autonomous with their own schools, police, and fire. An HOA is unnecessary. You use zoning and town ordinances. In places with strong county government, you have HOA to do that.

In 1950 Billerica had ~12000 people, in 2022 it has 42,000 people. In 1950 Scottsdale AZ had 10,000 people, in 2022 it had 242,000 people. Needham’s population only doubled since 1950 while Arlington Texas is 56x larger than it was in 1950

In suburban Mass, 1 house would become 5 houses in The sunbelt 1 house would be replaced with 500

One became a small dead end street the other, a whole subdivision with an HOA because they built a swimming pool, a few basketball courts and a Tennis court that needs to be maintained.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by nadnerb

Do not underestimate the average American's geographic cluelessness.

Some random person from California probably doesn't know the difference between Maryland and Massachusetts. Most Americans in the west probably have a rough concept that New England is a few states in the Northeast, but I doubt most would actually be able to name which ones or how many or what would be culturally distinct about it.

When I visited Boston years ago, I was taken by surprise that Harvard and MIT were literally right there. I thought Cambridge, MA was just some college town out in the country like Ithaca or Princeton or Ann Arbor.

Well, not for nothing, I’ve been to 45 of the lower 48 states, so I’m not some po-dunk who’s never been anywhere of note. Been through Boston a couple of times, sorta, kinda (but not really) as well. Although you’re partly right that New England, while I can name the states, is just the “northern northeast” to me, and more of an honorary title than a real distinction in my mind. At least I do know that Maryland was the original Catholic colony I’m not sure the snark was warranted, but I’m also sorry that Boston is just slippery and nothing but the history really sticks in my mind.

[nadnerb]

Originally Posted by jcp123

Well, not for nothing, I’ve been to 45 of the lower 48 states, so I’m not some po-dunk who’s never been anywhere of note. Been through Boston a couple of times, sorta, kinda (but not really) as well. Although you’re partly right that New England, while I can name the states, is just the “northern northeast” to me, and more of an honorary title than a real distinction in my mind. At least I do know that Maryland was the original Catholic colony I’m not sure the snark was warranted, but I’m also sorry that Boston is just slippery and nothing but the history really sticks in my mind.

I was definitely not insinuating that you are some podunk who has never been anywhere and it wasn't meant to be snarky towards you. If anything, I was trying to defend you.

When I said "some random person from California" I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to some random person from LA or something, because, frankly why would they care what the difference between Maryland and Massachusetts is? Or why would they care or know anything about New England unless they have ties with it or have extensively traveled there?

That's why when you said Boston was a forgettable city, I knew some of the posters on this forum would drag you for it, even though what you said wasn't that crazy or controversial. I just don't think Boston's identity outside of sports and history is that ingrained in the average person's mind.

[jcp123]

Originally Posted by nadnerb

I was definitely not insinuating that you are some podunk who has never been anywhere and it wasn't meant to be snarky towards you. If anything, I was trying to defend you.

When I said "some random person from California" I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to some random person from LA or something, because, frankly why would they care what the difference between Maryland and Massachusetts is? Or why would they care or know anything about New England unless they have ties with it or have extensively traveled there?

That's why when you said Boston was a forgettable city, I knew some of the posters on this forum would drag you for it, even though what you said wasn't that crazy or controversial. I just don't think Boston's identity outside of sports and history is that ingrained in the average person's mind.

Ahhhhh, gotcha that’s the perennial problem with online stuff. I missed out on the nonverbal cues!

[Gaylord_Focker]

Originally Posted by jcp123

Well, not for nothing, I’ve been to 45 of the lower 48 states, so I’m not some po-dunk who’s never been anywhere of note. Been through Boston a couple of times, sorta, kinda (but not really) as well. Although you’re partly right that New England, while I can name the states, is just the “northern northeast” to me, and more of an honorary title than a real distinction in my mind. At least I do know that Maryland was the original Catholic colony I’m not sure the snark was warranted, but I’m also sorry that Boston is just slippery and nothing but the history really sticks in my mind.

Not sure if you’re referring to me though I don’t believe I’ve ever come at you but all good. I live in California now and am from Texas. What I’ve said is that it’s ironic that southerners don’t consider Dc and nova as a part of the south by an overwhelming majority but most Bostonians do. And yet, old Boston apparently has the same racial challenges that southern cities have had. Ironic indeed