If you want a job, Bozeman wants your logins and passwords (Belgrade: how much, lawyers)

[Redraven]

IMO, the only good thing about Bozeman is the freeway rest area. That is the only place I ever stop.
Live there or work there? I won't say "never happen", but it IS highly unlikely!

[Rickers]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

seems to be a violation of your rights.

Rights ? What rights ? We don't have no stinking rights. !

[aquila]

Originally Posted by rickers

I'm wondering if they would require the same from their current employees. If I wanted a job with the city of Bozoman I would most likely comply, then whether hired or not I would promptly change all of my passwords.
I wouldn't be real happy with those requirements but I don't have any skeletons in my closet and complying with those odd requirements would be better than being without a job. Personally I would never live in a city as large as Bozoman let alone work for the city. I remember a few jobs I had where I never even filled out an application, only a little tax form.

A city as large as Bozeman? Somehow that comment amuses me. I'm not making fun of you. I just find it odd, since I hardly consider Bozeman to be a large city. I live in West Chester, Ohio - a northern suburb of Cincinnati.....a mere suburb that is still over twice as large as Bozeman.

Anyway, keep in mind if you feel it's okay to give up some of your rights in order to get a job, eventually more and more of them will be taken away from you.

[Timberwolf232]

The city of Bozeman seems to have an "elitist" attitude when it comes to city government.

IMO they are just a bunch of flunkies from other areas that found a place they could exploit because they couldn't get a job anywhere else.

Best thing to do... Vote out the ones you can, and don't let the "smug" get to you. This is the same city government that had a public meeting a year or two ago to oppose the war in Iraq and make sure that all of Montana knew where they stood.

Doesn't make a taxpayer feel good to know that instead of dealing with CITY issues they were taking our money and making political statements about something out of their control entirely.

As for asking for passwords, that doesn't surprise me, they are the types of people that think that they are above everyone else and want to make sure everyone else knows it... Bunch of blowhards.

[Rickers]

Originally Posted by aquila

A city as large as Bozeman? Somehow that comment amuses me. I'm not making fun of you. I just find it odd, since I hardly consider Bozeman to be a large city. I live in West Chester, Ohio - a northern suburb of Cincinnati.....a mere suburb that is still over twice as large as Bozeman.

Anyway, keep in mind if you feel it's okay to give up some of your rights in order to get a job, eventually more and more of them will be taken away from you.

I'm not sure if anyone really has those types of "rights" I would like you to show me where it is written in any constitution or bill of rights that you don't have to disclose personal information like Bozeman is requiring for employment consideration. This so called right may be a perceived right and violating or defending that right may legally be untested waters.

Bozeman is Montana's 4Th largest city no mater whose figures you look at.
Here are some population figures for the states 7 largest cities.

City--------Figures from the official Mt 2007-2008 map------City-Data 2006
------------based on 2005 census estimates.--------------figures---------

Billings------98721-----------------------------------------89847---------

Great Falls--56388-----------------------------------------56690---------

Missoula----62923-----------------------------------------57053---------

Bozeman----33535-----------------------------------------27503--------

Butte-------32282-----------------------------------------33507--------

Helena------27383-----------------------------------------25780--------

Kalispell-----18480-----------------------------------------14223--------

These figure fly in the face of what lots of folks say on this board. I just copied them from sources I noted. There may be errors and if any of the errors were mine I'm sure someone, (not going to mention names) will come along and correct me !

[Walter Greenspan]

Here's more, City asking for Net passwords (http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2009/06/19/news/state/42-passwords.txt - broken link), this time from the Billings Gazette, about the City of Bozeman and its attempt to collect logins and passwords on employment applications.


H/T: BI via Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty at yahoogroups.com

[aquila]

Originally Posted by rickers

I'm not sure if anyone really has those types of "rights" I would like you to show me where it is written in any constitution or bill of rights that you don't have to disclose personal information like Bozeman is requiring for employment consideration. This so called right may be a perceived right and violating or defending that right may legally be untested waters.

The right to privacy is not explicit in the Constitution, but isn't it implicit? I would think it would be potentially implied in the First and Fourth Amendments - depending on how they are interpreted. The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech. Don't you think the only reason an employer would want to know what's in your Facebook or Myspace account....or even what's in an internet message forum, such as here at City-Data especially...is so they can see what you're saying? If they don't like what they read and deny you a job, or fire you from one, couldn't that be construed as a violation of your freedom of speech?

The Fourth guarantees against unwarranted searches and seizures. Wouldn't it be considered unwarranted for a potential employer to search through your personal blogs? What if this was an old-fashioned book diary that had a lock on it? Do you think an employer has the right to demand you hand it over, along with the key?

Besides, my general point was that it doesn't seem to bother you to have to give up something that should be a private matter. If you're willing to do that, then what's to stop an employer from going further and telling you, for instance, that they want a camera installed in your bedroom and for you to submit a detailed list of each item you keep in your refrigerator or bathroom medicine cabinet? What if they tell you to divulge who you vote for, and that if you don't vote for the candidate they want in office, they will refuse to hire you, or may indeed fire you?

How far, exactly, are you willing to go - how many liberties are you willing to sacrifice - in order to keep a job? To what extent would you allow other people to control you? To run your life? To DICTATE to you what you must/must not, can/cannot, do in order to live your life? There's a teaching within Christianity (what your religious views are and whether you accept the teaching or not, I have no idea) that states the anti-Christ will force all people to accept a mark on their hand or forehead, and that without the mark they won't be able to buy or sell. Would you accept that mark for the sake of being able to purchase food for yourself? To have a job so you can pay your bills?

At what point are you willing to put your foot down and say "No", Rickers?

Originally Posted by rickers

Bozeman is Montana's 4Th largest city no mater whose figures you look at.
Here are some population figures for the states 7 largest cities.

City--------Figures from the official Mt 2007-2008 map------City-Data 2006
------------based on 2005 census estimates.--------------figures---------

Billings------98721-----------------------------------------89847---------

Great Falls--56388-----------------------------------------56690---------

Missoula----62923-----------------------------------------57053---------

Bozeman----33535-----------------------------------------27503--------

Butte-------32282-----------------------------------------33507--------

Helena------27383-----------------------------------------25780--------

Kalispell-----18480-----------------------------------------14223--------

These figure fly in the face of what lots of folks say on this board. I just copied them from sources I noted. There may be errors and if any of the errors were mine I'm sure someone, (not going to mention names) will come along and correct me !

That's cool. I wasn't making an issue of it. I just found it odd (in a neutral sense) to hear of Bozeman being referred to in such a way....as a "large city". The suburb I live in here north of Cincinnati is the size of Missoula!

[Rickers]

If I was desperate for a job I would do what ever it takes to get one. I am fortunate to not need to punch the clock anymore. About half my life I punched the clock and the other half I was self employed. Several of the jobs I had, all they cared about was me showing up and doing good work. Four of the jobs I had, I never even filled out an application ! I had a job as a chauffeur for a Persian couple. They would sit in the back seat of their MAZDA while I drove them to malls to shop ! I was paid four bucks per hour cash each day ! It wasn't my favorite job but it kept me alive for a few months. As far as rights and freedoms go, I usually do what ever the heck I feel like anyway ! But as I said before If I was desperate for work I would comply, rights and freedom are one thing, keeping myself off the streets and having food to eat sort of outweigh defending my rights. Eat now, fight for rights later !

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by rickers

I'm not sure if anyone really has those types of "rights" I would like you to show me where it is written in any constitution or bill of rights that you don't have to disclose personal information like Bozeman is requiring for employment consideration. This so called right may be a perceived right and violating or defending that right may legally be untested waters.

The Constitution, in particular the Bill of Rights, is NOT a list of what the people are allowed to do.

It is a list of things the government is NOT allowed to do.

Anything not specifically prohibited is therefore a Right we have by default. The fact that our government has been routinely violating the Constitution for the past few decades doesn't change that -- however it is an indictment of the American people for electing officials who let it happen!

In any event, a government agency demanding custody of private information probably falls under the 4th Amendment, as it constitutes unreasonable search and seizure of our private "papers and effects".

Would you be so willing to hand over this info if it was worded as "Please give us the keys to your private diary"??? It is EXACTLY the same thing, albeit in electronic form.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
-- Benjamin Franklin

All things not compusory are forbidden.
-- old Soviet jape

I know which philosophy I prefer....

[Gman2007]

But would it be considered unreasonable search and seizure when the information is given voluntarily??? Different situation than if the city said we want all passwords for all residents of the city...

If you don't want to give the info out, there is nothing forcing anyone to take the jobs...