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I really don't follow your argument as a justification. But it doesn't matter. If it doesn't bother you, it doesn't bother you. I feel revulsion, but I'm aware that most people don't.
If you want to quit eating meat, deconstruct what's on your plate back to the point when the animal was alive.
I wrote "deconstruct," but a broader way of envisioning this is "reverse engineer." If you start with (say), your Veal Scallopini and work backwards in your imagination from the table presentation, to the kitchen, from the butcher shop, to the abattoir, to the removal of the enfant from its birth mother, you might recognize the truth. The disconnect is madness.
On the one hand, 95% of the world's people are meat eaters. I think one can say that the human body is designed to eat meat.
It is distasteful to think about animals being killed for us to eat. And yet, even when humans had to do the killing themselves, they did. I remember well my grandfather chopping the heads off chickens for Sunday dinner. The number of religious leaders who preach vegan lifestyle are few and far between. Why?
It isn't a question of letting monks (or anyone else) do my thinking for me. It's a question of seeking advice from the leaders of a religion I tend to align with.
On the one hand, 95% of the world's people are meat eaters. I think one can say that the human body is designed to eat meat.
It is distasteful to think about animals being killed for us to eat. And yet, even when humans had to do the killing themselves, they did. I remember well my grandfather chopping the heads off chickens for Sunday dinner. The number of religious leaders who preach vegan lifestyle are few and far between. Why?
It isn't a question of letting monks (or anyone else) do my thinking for me. It's a question of seeking advice from the leaders of a religion I tend to align with.
The argument that the human body was "designed" (designed??) to eat meat, is inaccurate. Off topic, but wrong. Same with your 95% figure, and the implied notion that humans have always done this. As dear as you are, it is obvious you have never engaged in debate on this subject.
The argument that the human body was "designed" (designed??) to eat meat, is inaccurate. Off topic, but wrong. Same with your 95% figure, and the implied notion that humans have always done this. As dear as you are, it is obvious you have never engaged in debate on this subject.
But yes, you are right, man has not always eaten meat. Only for the last 2.6 million years.
Having been part of such discussions often on Buddhist websites, I always find it interesting that vegans think they have the winning argument, even though the vast majority of people in the world are not vegans.
But I'm not much into eye rolling...except in purely religious discussions.
SHOULD the eat meat?
No. May they eat meat?
Yes.
As always, it depends. Depends, who do you want to follow. Monk or not.
If you want to follow what the original teacher said, He allowed only one food a day and food had to be a donation. Whatever was donated was kosher to eat.
That said - very unlikely anyone here is hard core Buddhist enough to follow donated meal only principle.
As such, you have CHOICE of food you eat.
Simply enough, follow your voice of conscience. Just like He said - listen to no one. Neither to your elders, nor to your sages. Do not even listen to me. Listen only to your voice of (either conscience, or common sense, or rational voice. Interpretations vary. Point being same).
The rest is opinionated rationalizing. Justifier mind will justify anything mind wants it to.
But -- probably because I'm a woman-- everyone is completely ignoring my central point: your remarks are human-centered, without reference to the real issue, the sufferings of animals.
What this proves to me is that Buddhism is misogynist, male-dominant and irrelevant.
And you're oblivious of this fact.
Monks have to perform a cleansing ceremony if touched by a woman? The same attitude can be found in Jewish and Catholic culture.
SHOULD the eat meat?
No. May they eat meat?
Yes.
As always, it depends. Depends, who do you want to follow. Monk or not.
If you want to follow what the original teacher said, He allowed only one food a day and food had to be a donation. Whatever was donated was kosher to eat.
That said - very unlikely anyone here is hard core Buddhist enough to follow donated meal only principle.
As such, you have CHOICE of food you eat.
Simply enough, follow your voice of conscience. Just like He said - listen to no one. Neither to your elders, nor to your sages. Do not even listen to me. Listen only to your voice of (either conscience, or common sense, or rational voice. Interpretations vary. Point being same).
The rest is opinionated rationalizing. Justifier mind will justify anything mind wants it to.
I've been waiting for someone to bring up the words of Buddha himself
But -- probably because I'm a woman-- everyone is completely ignoring my central point: your remarks are human-centered, without reference to the real issue, the sufferings of animals.
What this proves to me is that Buddhism is misogynist, male-dominant and irrelevant.
And you're oblivious of this fact.
Monks have to perform a cleansing ceremony if touched by a woman? The same attitude can be found in Jewish and Catholic culture.
Kara, you are not a woman. You are not a man. You are not a body. You are not your mind. You are none of that. Though, on the wheel of samsara, you were in all of them. Animals included.
This is the biggest illusion you have, causing your suffering.
Buddhism is centric in no way and, even more so, in male chauvinist. Please, kindly remember one thing. Sukyamuni Buddha was a revolutionary, and he allowed women to be accepted to his communities. Before, there were only bhikku, after, there were also bhikkuni.
Though, He also prophesied that by doing so, He will destroy His teaching. He gave it five hundred years and that was exactly what happened.
"Interesting" how in discussions of this stripe there is no mention of the sufferings of the animals. As if we're all big, important humans and the torture and murder of non-human, sentient beings is of no account.
Please.
I don't let anyone, monks or anyone else, do my thinking for me.
Well, yes, that's precisely what this discussion is about: whether people who follow a religion that is against causing death and suffering ought to eat meat, which causes death and suffering. Talking about the reasons people who follow that religion might give for eating meat is perfectly on topic. If people are "ignoring" you when you talk about this, it's because it's already implicitly accepted-- or we wouldn't need this discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I had never thought of it as a merit issue. That's interesting. I'll have to think on that.
I wouldn't have, either, except when you pointed out that some people spend a fair amount of money to specifically give meat-- which makes me wonder if they don't feel it's the "kinder/better" thing to do (give someone you respect the "good" food), and hence will gain them more merit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz
Sukyamuni Buddha was a revolutionary, and he allowed women to be accepted to his communities. Before, there were only bhikku, after, there were also bhikkuni.
Though, He also prophesied that by doing so, He will destroy His teaching. He gave it five hundred years and that was exactly what happened.
But, by some accounts, he only allowed women to be ordained very reluctantly... (whether the reluctance was because of the prophecy you speak of, depends on who you ask).
*Can* practitioners be chauvinist? Yes, of course, obviously (see bhikkuni in Thailand, for example, and the difference between the way bhikku and usual nuns {maechee} are treated).
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