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Just my two cents....I just found this forum and oh..how cool. I had no idea.
Anyway...I live in Livingston County, NY, 48 miles south of the city of Rochester.
Born and raised in Rochester, I've also lived in Orleans County growing up.
Rochester is a bit too much for me, now that I'm an "older person" and spent the last 12 years in Livingston County. What I can say looking back is -
Orleans County used to be "very rural" and a bit dumpy -even with SUNY Brockport. Now, its considered a bit snobby, up and coming over the past several years. Taxes have skyrocketed and for the life of me, I can't figure out why. But it does offer a streamlined way to live just outside the City and still have a fairly reasonable and easy commute.
Rochester, like I said, a bit dangerous, places I used to live prior to moving, well, I go back to "visit" and wouldn't live there now. Even the outlying suburbs, Irondequoit near the zoo, Brighton, are just too close to the City and are borderline "dangerous". Thats just my opinion, but I've seen it change over 15 years.
I lived in E. Rochester for a short time and I thought that was a great little community, felt safe at the time, a little hard rocking, but real estate was inexpensive ($65k for a 3 bdrm home) on a cute neighborhood street. Not sure how that fairs now, I lived there in 92-94.
Livingston County offers the best of everything near Rochester (again, just my opinion). Straight shoot down 390N to the city. Places like Avon and Geneseo are having a boom now and real estate in those areas is going up. But go out a little farther - Dansville, Lakeville, Livonia, Mt. Morris and not only is land, real estate very low (3bdrm house for $45k, acreage as low as $500 per acre), but taxes have stayed relatively low as well. I have 22 acres, and an old 5 bdrm farmhouse, with two outbuildings and I spend annually about $1,550 in taxes. I bought the entire place in 94 for $47k. And, its not an anomoly. Thats the going rate.
As for snow, the entire area gets its share of snow. The lake effect hurts the Orleans county area, also the Ontario and Monroe county area. Again, here, the Livingston County area doesn't often get hit with lake effect - too far away. When Rochester is shutting down and travel is creeping along any of the major highways, Livingston county is still functioning. Just get past the Avon exit on 390 and its usually clear sailing.
On the bad side, it is rural - very. And there is a 30-60 minute commute, one way, depending where in Livingston county you live and where you work. But here again, if you're looking for work and you live in Livingston County, you'll likely have to work in Rochester. Big agricultural area, big horse area, some factories, and not much else. And a job that you could get in Liv Cty will pay you $8/hour, the same job in Roch will pay you $12.
Another great place to live - Finger Lakes/ Farmington. This is just a very nice section, lots of growth going on right now, the taxes and real estate haven't quite caught up to the growth yet and its on the NYS thruway with just a 25 minute commute to Rochester.
I was surprised I recieved so many comments from Western NY folks. Let me offer a quick rebuttle.
Someone said Albany doesn't have the big city feel of Syracuse, Rochester, or Buffalo. If someone thinks any of the upstate cities have a big city feel...they don't know what a big city is. If you are coming from DC you will not think any of the upstate cities feel big. I promise you that.
Someone says Rochester has more history...please. Any passing student of history knows the importance of Albany and the Hudson Valley as far as Dutch and English settlements, and revolutionary history.
Albany is closer to other attractive areas. The bottom line is, being from DC you may want to return to a cosmopolitan area on occasion to enjoy the big city life. Not big city as in Rochester...big city as in NY, Boston, DC etc.
I said Albany is 2 hours from NYC and Bostson, then someone said it was 3. Just look at yahoo maps for yourself. NYC is 155 miles south of Albany. If you average 60mph it is well under 3 hours, if you drive 75mph like everyone else it is about 2 hours. I know...I did it last weekend. I usually drive to Poughkipsis then take the train into MSG for $12. Boston is only 10 miles further away than NYC.
And you have no access to any real cities in other upstate areas. Buffalo you could do Toronto but, like that other guy you could be scared of the border. No way montreal takes 4-5 hours or whatever he said. Just do yahoo maps and look for yourself.
Bottom line, if you want to live in Syracuse etc..you will have a larger midwestern city feel. Think Omaha with a very distinct rust belt feel. If you want a New England / small city with access to world class skiing and world class cities then go with Albany.
I believe I said other places have more of a big city feel and this is true. Not big city feel like NYC but MORE of a big city feel than Albany has. I have lived in several places to include big cities and small, and the other upstate cities have MORE of a big feel than Albany did. I never said that they were on the same level as Boston and NYC. Albany did have historical importance but the other other cities have had their share too, and lots more culture with them being bigger.
Places like Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester have jetblue. You can get to NYC in an hour for cheap. It is around 3 hours to NYC from Albany. I have done this trip several times. You will encounter once you hit Westchester county and all the tolls. Boston is similar. You will hit traffic and it will make the drive 3 hours. Does not matter how fast you go, traffic will always slow you down. I have done 2.5 hours from Albany to NYC but this was traveling at midnight and not too many people like traveling late at night.
Upstate cities are close to "real" cities. Thats a pretty snobby statement to hint that upstate does not have "real" cities. BTW, Montreal is is 4 hours from Albany (the bordres are NOT bad at all unless you are a criminal). I have done this trip also.
You act is if other upstate cities are shut off from the world.
All upstate cities to include Albany will have a mixture of midwestern and northeastern feels to them. Albany is no different than the other cities with the exception of a small amount of articheture.
Although I have only spent a brief time in Rochester, I really liked it. I have to say that there is overall a very friendly feel to the place, and if this is what makes it more "Midwestern" then great! I lived extensively in western Canada, and I found that I felt more at home in Rochester than I do here in southern PA. I do think it has more of a Canadian feel to it as well - I'm Canadian, so I can recognize that. Maybe it's something to do with the weather or the mixture of people, hard to say.
If someone wants to take what I said as an insult (it seems to be implied that there is something pedestrian and/or unsophisticated about "Midwestern" towns - incidentally, the town I lived in on the Saskatchewan prairies was WAY more sophisticated than several cities I have visited around here, LOL) then so be it. I see it as a POSITIVE thing!
Places like Buffalo, Syracuse and Rochester have jetblue. You can get to NYC in an hour for cheap.
Once you resort to bragging that a perk of your town is that you fly jetblue to somewhere else...you have lost. And the flight maybe be an hour or less...but I know you gotta get to the airport at least an hour early...and drive to the airport, and pay to park etc....
Western NY is great if you are not interested in going to major metroplitan areas to expierience globally recognized cultral centers, restaurants theatres etc..
As far as the cities themself are concearned...throw out Syracuse and Buffalo. If you like depressed rust-belt towns they are right up your alley. It is definatly a toss up between Albany and Rochester. But man Rochester is out there...I mean way out there so far from anywhere else. Good luck having your friends visit you there. I bet most people from New York State have never been to Rochester.
And I can still make it to NYC in 2 hours. I made it from my door to Giants stadium in 2 hours. If you are a grandma rolling in a Geo metro maybe it would take you 3 hours, boston is the same thing.
Once you resort to bragging that a perk of your town is that you fly jetblue to somewhere else...you have lost. And the flight maybe be an hour or less...but I know you gotta get to the airport at least an hour early...and drive to the airport, and pay to park etc....
Western NY is great if you are not interested in going to major metroplitan areas to expierience globally recognized cultral centers, restaurants theatres etc..
As far as the cities themself are concearned...throw out Syracuse and Buffalo. If you like depressed rust-belt towns they are right up your alley. It is definatly a toss up between Albany and Rochester. But man Rochester is out there...I mean way out there so far from anywhere else. Good luck having your friends visit you there. I bet most people from New York State have never been to Rochester.
And I can still make it to NYC in 2 hours. I made it from my door to Giants stadium in 2 hours. If you are a grandma rolling in a Geo metro maybe it would take you 3 hours, boston is the same thing.
How is bragging about jet blue losing? You don't make much sense. You do not need to be an hour early for a flight for the jet blue destinations. I have gotten to the airport 30 min before the flight and I was fine. Driving to the Airports in these cities only takes 15-20 min. If you fly to NYC for the weekend its less than 10 bucks to park, less than you would pay for tolls driving.
Western NY has great culural centers, theaters, etc. You must not know much about the areas. And as was said before, cities in western NY are close to Toronto. Its less than 2 hours from Buffalo, and around 3 hours from Rochester. And as was said before, its a 1 hour plane ride from Western NY cities. You seem to be ignoring these things. Syracuse and Buffalo aren't as depressed as you claim them to be. They are very nice cities. Not much worse off than Albany. You see the same run down buildings in Albany as you do in the other places. I have had no trouble when I was in Rochester having friends visit. People came from Albany, NYC and Boston to visit. They had fun and had great things to say about the place. People from NYS havent been to Rochester as much as they havent been to Albany. It is not "out there" as you claim it to be.
I hate to call you a liar, but its almost impossible to make to NYC in 2 hours from Albany. I have done this trip several times and most of the time its 3 hours. You have traffic and tolls which tie you up. Without the traffic its about 2.5 hours and to get that you have to travel at odd times (Giants stadium is NOT nyc or even in nys. Its a half an hour outside).
Does all this distance yapping really matter? I think its safe to say that any upstate city will be 2-3 hours away from a major metropolitan area. Does not matter where you are, you will be close to a major metro. Besides, what is in the actual city you live in should be more important. Afterall, thats where you will spend most of your time.
My friends from all over cannot wait to visit us when we move to Rochester - and they will be flying there too. Strange idea that one's friends wouldn't visit because you move somewhere that isn't right next to NYC...
I like this thread.
I'm also moving to Rochester this summer, from the New York City area, mainly because of family and lifestyle reasons. My parents and my sister's family are in Brighton (just outside Rochester) and I'm just tired of the endless pain in the butt of being a commuter to Manhattan, trying to support a family of 4 on $130,000/year and not being able to do it! You really need close to $200,000/year to have what most people would consider a middle class lifestyle in Westchester. I've been living in and around NYC for the last 23 years (Bronx, Queens, Nassau & Westchester) and I'm just tired. I lived in Albany for one year way back in 1982-1983, grew up in a small town between Elmira and Corning in western NY, visited Rochester many, many times.
Here is my take... for what it's worth. I agree with acnemaster about Albany, sort of. I believe Albany does have a slightly different vibe than the other upstate cities. I think Boston may have as big an influence on Albany as NYC does. In either case, you sort of feel it in the general nastiness of some of the people who live in the city of Albany. They are more like downstaters in in that sense. A little stand-offish and cold, bordering on unpleasant. (I know - I'm stereotyping - there are many nice people in Albany too). In any of the other central NY and western NY upstate cities I believe people tend, TEND, to be a bit friendlier and a bit more relaxed. As someone said, "mid-western," and that is right on the money. OK, now that I've thrown out some broad stereotypes....I do like Rochester, murder rate and all. Syracuse & Buffalo I don't know well enough to talk about. FYI - Buffalo managed to edge out Rochester in the killing department last year. But let's be honest - Washington DC isn't exactly Mayberry RFD either. I suspect the murder rate in DC is even higher. The bottom line on that is, as long as you don't hang out dealing drugs in a slum, you probably won't be murdered in any city. Oh, one last thing. There is no sun in Rochester between October and May. NO SUN. It is the land of eternal gloom. Get used to it. My sister says that when the sun comes out in the spring in Rochester the people emerge from their homes, lift up their pale and haggard faces and stare up at the burning orb in the sky, wondering, "what is this thing that brings heat and light?" Seriously, it does tend to be overcast there often.
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Just a follow up
