Complaining about California, a poll. (London: violent crime, loans, felony)

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

Now, one can make the case that medical care in the US is very good, but we fall very short in healthcare for the nation, think of that 47 million, then look at the percentage of national healthcare money spent in the last 4 months of life compared to what is spent in preventative care.

Agreed! However, I think the issue is who's to pay for it. I am in accord that everyone should have adequate medical coverage. Technically, Medicaid was, at some point in time, supposed to take care of the medically indigent, even if some had a share of cost. As with many government programs, it has fallen far short of that goal, to the tune of those 47 million.

I do not in the least mind some of my tax burden going to the greater good. At the same time, I'm not fond of my funds being wasted on pork and nice-to-haves rather than need-to-haves, especially in the current economy.

Along with responsibility for the health and education of the population, the main goals of the welfare/socialist state are the cradle-to-grave care of children, the elderly and others in need of care, as well as economic security for each citizen; read: a roof over their head. Under this system you find the philosophy of "from each according to their ability -- to each according to their needs." It's a delightful thought, biblical even, and some of its parts work well in some countries. In its pure form it would be next to perfect if greed were not a reality of the human condition. It's also too "pure" to leave in the hands of politicians.

Thus the disconnect between the what could bes and the what ares of a democracy/republic with a free-enterprise system. Just not a good mix.

As always, just one man's opinion!

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

You will notice that in spite of there being socialist bashers on this forum, no one has told us what awful things Socialism has.

The closest is Cyanna, whose British experiences seem to reflect the lower middle class of Britain, the Brits I know don't agree with her assessment.

Actually, contrary to what you assume about myself, my husband & his family and our circle of friends in the UK, we most definately were not part of the "lower middle class" which you insultingly infer. I don't know how many Brits you know from a personal, face-to-face relationship, as opposed to an internet one, but I know a hell of a lot of them throughout the entire country, including my own blood relatives (not my husband's) still living in Northern Ireland.

Also, contrary to what you and many others of the more "upper class" realms of society may believe, the class system is still alive and well in the UK. You have this upper class of people who fully believe that they are ENTITLED to spit on a taxi driver if he doesn't follow their exact directions, or to even tell the taxi driver to shut up because he wasn't be spoken to by the haggard old Grand Dames being driven to the theatre or popular hoity toity pub.

By the way, the Duchess of Northumberland, who I have met and spoken with on a number of occassions, as well as being given FULL access to one of her homes, is a lovely woman, unlike many of her class who still look down upon the rest of us.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Neither do the hundreds of Irish people I've worked with over the past decade and a half. They come out here every summer and can't believe how we do things here. It's easy to pick countries that may have problems like Canada or the UK. No one ever talks about the majority of countries where that system has worked out really well. The middle class in those countries are the majority it seems, not a shrinking minority.

If you mean by "Irish" you are referring to the Republic or Ireland, yes, they will have a very difference experience because they are NOT part of the British system. However, my great-aunt (my father's side) in the Park Hall area of Northen Ireland, as well as my cousins in Eglinton, have a very different, and not very favorable opinion of the British NHS system.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

In Britain, once ruled by class, where you are economically, just like America, is up to you.

Sorry, but that is utter bulls**t. You really know NOTHING first hand about the reality of life in the UK, and if your "friends" in the UK are telling you differently than they are either seriously deluded, happy to live on "the dole" or very, very wealthy.

[Highnlite]

You certainly have a bee in your bonnet. I find that generally people with negative attitudes about people or places have that attitude for reasons that have nothing to do with the people or the place.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

We worked in close association with a British family who created a large enterprise based on the internship he did with my son in the 1950's. At the time the enterprise entered the US market, the father and son lived here. Both returned to the UK for medical treatment, when the son married, they returned to the UK for the birth of their child.

ROFLMAO!!! Well of course! The 1950's were still a GOOD time for the UK, and was shortly BEFORE the current system started to really take hold. We are now currently seeing third generations of familes who have relied on government assistance to survive because they WILL NOT work! They have been RAISED to expect and take hand-outs.

[Highnlite]

You might have had a comprehension problem, created a large enterprise, Based on the internship he did in the 1950's,

The proper interpretation of that would be that the enterprise was created after the 50's. In truth, the enterprise grew through the 60's into the 90's, and farmed on three continents, not bad for a son of a middling farmer in the midlands.

I would like to know the source of your allcaps, that indicates a degree of anger, why?

I do admit to a senior moment, Dave interned with my father, not my son.

Current unemployment in Britain is 7.5%
Current unemployment in America is 9.5%

That would seem to indicate that a smaller percentage of brits are on the dole, than americans.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

Sorry, but that is utter bulls**t. You really know NOTHING first hand about the reality of life in the UK, and if your "friends" in the UK are telling you differently than they are either seriously deluded, happy to live on "the dole" or very, very wealthy.

Cyanna, I agree with you. I had, for a number of years, a British daughter-in-law and my oldest son lived just outside London for seven years and currently works for a European company, his second, like he's done for the past 15 or so years. My parent's best friends were a British Navy Commander and his wife and their daughters were friends of mine. When Peter retired after many years, they had to make their own wine and brew their own beer because it was too expensive on the market, and that was in the 60s. Not one of those I mentioned gives laudits and plaudits to the "British system." I would trust my family members', friend's and your take before another's.

I guess it's very easy to think everything's just peachy when you're working for a family concern on family owned land going back at least two former generations. You know, silver spoons and all that rot!

[Highnlite]

I guess it's very easy to think everything's just peachy when you're working for a family concern on family owned land going back at least two former generations. You know, silver spoons and all that rot!

A bit delusional there sport?

Here, a minor factoid, I am poor, infact, so poor, I am one of those 47 million without health insurance, can't afford it. I don't work, I would not mind working, but at my age all I can get is Walmart greeter, I surely do not work for a non existent family concern. Without all of you paying your taxes to support our excellent socialist healthcare system for Veterans, I would be in big trouble, worse, I'd be dead.

Here is what I am thinking, ya'll be conservatives, your friends are probably conservatives, conservatives complain. Hard to figure why, but, Curmudgeon, you took your Californian Pension off to another state, and yet you spend a great deal of time on this forum, complaining about the state that lets you live without working.


Curious.

Tis true that there are two basic forms of Brits, bad teeth brits, and good teeth brits, check your friend's teeth, see which they fall into.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Highnlite

A bit delusional there sport?

Here, a minor factoid, I am poor, infact, so poor, I am one of those 47 million without health insurance, can't afford it. I don't work, I would not mind working, but at my age all I can get is Walmart greeter, I surely do not work for a non existent family concern. Without all of you paying your taxes to support our excellent socialist healthcare system for Veterans, I would be in big trouble, worse, I'd be dead.

Here is what I am thinking, ya'll be conservatives, your friends are probably conservatives, conservatives complain. Hard to figure why, but, Curmudgeon, you took your Californian Pension off to another state, and yet you spend a great deal of time on this forum, complaining about the state that lets you live without working.


Curious.

Tis true that there are two basic forms of Brits, bad teeth brits, and good teeth brits, check your friend's teeth, see which they fall into.

Dang, Clarks! What happened to your lovely cilantro field on the family farm you live on that goes back to the 1800s or early 1900s and your ranches in Nevada and the fact that poor people are that only because they refuse to work and want to be on the dole and your idylic life on the central coast?

Does this help your recall?

Originally Posted by Highnlite

Mudgie, you have two bad habits, one is personal attacks, the other is jumping to conclusions.
A. Anything I have, I earned, I have no family money, old or new.
B. I do not farm, and the only land I own is my home farm, and a couple of ranches in Nevada.
C The numbers you mention might have meant something "back in the day" but 1800 a year is not much more than beer money today.
D, Clarks?

Huh? How can you not farm and own/ live (which is it?) on your (grandparent's) home farm with ranches (often a euphemism for "farm" in the west) in Nevada? Have you frorgotten how proud you were to post a lovely picture of "your" cilantro field.

From a couple of days ago, Clarks:

Originally Posted by Highnlite
My mother has a chair and a salad bowl that came to California in a covered wagon, with her predecessors, about 1856, what is that? 7 generations?

I live on the farm that my Grandfather began farming on, in 1908. Still owned by us, still farmed.

Actually, most of my friends, including my wife, are pretty liberal and I'm very centrist.

Seriously, I think you need some professional help with regards to your memory as well as your veracity. I hope you get it, health insurance notwithstanding.