California? is it even worth it? (San Jose, Santa Rosa: public school, tornadoes, earthquakes)
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Defending the United States is the responsibility of the federal government which includes funding and managing the Armed Forces and associated agencies.
You are equating spending in aerospace with defending the United States. Cutting spending in aerospace doesn't have to mean not defending the United States. That's a bogus assertion. Or is this how low it has fallen for you?
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Bailing out investment banks, auto companies, insurance companies, private and commercial mortgages, bad loans used for mortgage backed securities, general stimulus handouts, could go on and on … is not the responsibility of the federal government.
Good thought. Actually, not bailing out these entities would have been a form of job security for you too. Since there would have been mass riots and perhaps an armed uprising/revolution/civil war with the collapse of the banking system and unemployment shooting to 50%, your defense-related job would have been in high demand. That should have kept you fully employed.
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They spend all this money, tens of trillions of dollars, put us in unsustainable debt and still the economy did not improve ... just propped up temporarily. We are still going to crash and burn
Well, we did have to spend all those trillions fighting those wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, wars that have given you your paycheck.
Defending the United States is the responsibility of the federal government which includes funding and managing the Armed Forces and associated agencies.
Bailing out investment banks, auto companies, insurance companies, private and commercial mortgages, bad loans used for mortgage backed securities, general stimulus handouts, could go on and on … is not the responsibility of the federal government.
They spend all this money, tens of trillions of dollars, put us in unsustainable debt and still the economy did not improve ... just propped up temporarily. We are still going to crash and burn.
This is more of a national problem vs. California specific problem. And it effects millions of ppl around the world including corporations as well as other countries along with our own national security. It's unfortunate that we are looking at some of the largest cuts in decades. However I agree that in addressing our national budget deficit everything has to be considered. This includes military spending, waste and abuse. It seems like there are some witch hunts going around looking for programs to ax right now. And the politics are getting pretty crazy.
President Obama has prosposed $400 billion in cuts. That's huge. What this means is entire commands within federal agencies being consolidated/shutdown/swallowed up. It is also means a smaller military.
2012 will be a pivotal year for many things including a potential shift in power in the White House along with allocation of defense spending. Gates is on the way out. So there is much change in the wind regarding national defense. Typically the pendulum swings to extremes with defense spending. So there will be much to be seen in the coming year.
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Another big problem is the Pentagon bureaucracy, which has resisted Mr. Gates’s attempts at cuts. He said he managed to cut only $1 billion from the $64 billion spent on the “fourth estate” of Defense Department offices outside the military services. To preserve the funding needed for weapons modernization and avoid cutting too deeply into the forces, Mr. Gates’s successor will have to address what he described as “too many headquarters, offices and agencies employing too many high-ranking personnel and contractors.” --washingtonpost
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 05-29-2011 at 07:45 PM..
You are equating spending in aerospace with defending the United States. Cutting spending in aerospace doesn't have to mean not defending the United States. That's a bogus assertion. Or is this how low it has fallen for you?.
I am only talking about the defense spending in aerospace. Sure, aerospace does more than defense work and they get the funding from different customers, some being non-government.
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Originally Posted by ndfmnlf
Good thought. Actually, not bailing out these entities would have been a form of job security for you too. Since there would have been mass riots and perhaps an armed uprising/revolution/civil war with the collapse of the banking system and unemployment shooting to 50%, your defense-related job would have been in high demand. That should have kept you fully employed..
(modified from my previous post) They spend all this money, tens of trillions of dollars, put us in unsustainable debt and still the economy did not improve ... just propped up temporarily. We are still going to crash and burn. But now we are in deep debt which will make any kind of real recovery extremely difficult and lengthy. We can't even afford the interest on the debt we owe other nations.
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Originally Posted by ndfmnlf
Well, we did have to spend all those trillions fighting those wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. You know, wars that have given you your paycheck.
Yeah .. Those dam pesky terrorist that had to go and kill over 3000 American citizens and destroy the World Trade Center in NY.
Do you realize how many more terrorist attacks we stopped because of investments in new technology? Maybe we should drop our arms, discharge all the troops and cancel all defense programs and operations. Then when we or our allies get attacked and millions are killed we can say ... "hey ... look how much we saved by cancelling national defense!!" … Now we can pay for all the social programs, grant amnesty and citizenship to all the illegal’s!”
Yeah .. Those dam pesky terrorist that had to go and kill over 3000 American citizens and destroy the World Trade Center in NY.
Do you realize how many more terrorist attacks we stopped because of investments in new technology? Maybe we should drop our arms, discharge all the troops and cancel all defense programs and operations. Then when we or our allies get attacked and millions are killed we can say ... "hey ... look how much we saved by cancelling national defense!!" … Now we can pay for all the social programs, grant amnesty and citizenship to all the illegal’s!”
Ummm....I see. So it's okay to spend trillions of dollars and push the country into debt by attacking Iraq and Afghanistan (with the side benefit that it gives you a paycheck). But it's not okay to spend trillions of dollars saving thousands of American jobs in the auto, banking, construction industries....providing relief to unemployed Americans who are losing their homes....providing for their health care. As long as your job is the one being saved, the government can spend all it wants. But when it comes to saving other people's jobs, the government should not spend a penny. That would be Communism.
I love city-data because we can all come with our different opinions and hopfully help eachother make some decisions. I myself used to feel this way when I first got married almost 5 years ago. My husband and I met in Hawaii ( I was lucky enough to live there with my brother who is Coast Guard). We then moved back to California and stayed at first with my parents then stayed in a motorhom in a really nice RV park in Newport, however we wanted to afford a home and have my be able to become a stay at home mom. So we moved to Florida which is my husbands home state. I fell in love wtih it on a visit.
Well now after being here 3 years and 3 kids later! ( we are in our 30's and wanted 3 to 4 kids and didn't feel like wasting time, LOL!) Anyways, now my priorities have changed, but I want to here opinions to see if my priorities are truly from the heart or just another dream that could easily change when reality strkes ( hope I am making some sense).
what I mean is when first married, we were kind of sick of my parents becuase we were living with them for a year and my father was very difficult, he was in a depression ( long long story but believe me you would sympathize), and I just wanted to get a way with my hubby and start our own life.
NOw I realize how important all that other family is as well. I miss them daily and do not want to be with them every day, however it would be nice to have them accessible, to have birthday parties, etc.
So basically what I am trying to say is, yes it comes down to priorities, and those do change, and like others mentioned, it is one thing to visit and another to live in an area.
The humidity her and never seeing a mountain is depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter how beautiful the beaches and how cheap the homes: )
Ummm....I see. So it's okay to spend trillions of dollars and push the country into debt by attacking Iraq and Afghanistan (with the side benefit that it gives you a paycheck). But it's not okay to spend trillions of dollars saving thousands of American jobs in the auto, banking, construction industries....providing relief to unemployed Americans who are losing their homes....providing for their health care. As long as your job is the one being saved, the government can spend all it wants. But when it comes to saving other people's jobs, the government should not spend a penny. That would be Communism.
Impeccable logic.
Interesting how you attempt to put words in my mouth and then end with "Impeccable logic". These are your words not mine.
I love city-data because we can all come with our different opinions and hopfully help eachother make some decisions. I myself used to feel this way when I first got married almost 5 years ago. My husband and I met in Hawaii ( I was lucky enough to live there with my brother who is Coast Guard). We then moved back to California and stayed at first with my parents then stayed in a motorhom in a really nice RV park in Newport, however we wanted to afford a home and have my be able to become a stay at home mom. So we moved to Florida which is my husbands home state. I fell in love wtih it on a visit.
Well now after being here 3 years and 3 kids later! ( we are in our 30's and wanted 3 to 4 kids and didn't feel like wasting time, LOL!) Anyways, now my priorities have changed, but I want to here opinions to see if my priorities are truly from the heart or just another dream that could easily change when reality strkes ( hope I am making some sense).
what I mean is when first married, we were kind of sick of my parents becuase we were living with them for a year and my father was very difficult, he was in a depression ( long long story but believe me you would sympathize), and I just wanted to get a way with my hubby and start our own life.
NOw I realize how important all that other family is as well. I miss them daily and do not want to be with them every day, however it would be nice to have them accessible, to have birthday parties, etc.
So basically what I am trying to say is, yes it comes down to priorities, and those do change, and like others mentioned, it is one thing to visit and another to live in an area.
The humidity her and never seeing a mountain is depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter how beautiful the beaches and how cheap the homes: )
Great post faithhope7! This goes to show the draw CA has for many. These things are subjective based on one's own family, life experiences and the things which one values most. It also demostrates that is there is much more to a state and life than politics, current economics or one's net worth. Though some move to CA to become the next Movie Star or Silicon Valley billionaire. For many like us CA represents so much more like home, family, tradition, all things West Coast including deserts, mountains, redwood forests, beautiful coastlines. Then there are the great multicultural influences of international cities, cuisine, fresh produce, etc... The moderate year round weather in merely icing on the cake, though we definately enjoy it.
For those from other states or who enjoy other climates more (i.e. southwest heat, midwest/east coast extreme temp variations/seasons) it doesn't mean as much to them. They don't really get it. And I don't even expect them to. If you don't love the outdoors, hiking in the Sierras one week and surfiing/sailing/kayaking etc... the next it seems overrated. And for some it really isn't worth the price of admission. But for many Californians there is no place which compares.
Living in CO for a time I could see the same thing from natives Coloradans. The Rocky Mountains and all other things Colorado were more important than all the politics of the days and other junk combined. Its much more than the sum of its parts which could be placed on a graph and added up by a bean counter or political pollster. Rather its a way of life that some ppl just don't get or fully appreciate. That is why it truly is subjective based on the things one values most in life, family being one of them for us. That was a big draw for us returning from CO to CA. The rest of the politics and other things are in the noise. Though ppl on forums like this really enjoy getting all worked up about them, especially right before leaving. Then they seem baffled when others don't think the same way. The truth is CA was a great state before and it still is for many residents fully enjoying the CA way of life today. We plan on staying here as long as we can. If work forces a move at some point of course we'll do that. But CA will always be our home and the place we'll want to return to if we ever do move away for a season.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 05-29-2011 at 10:59 PM..
Great post faithhope7! This goes to show the draw CA has for many. These things are subjective based on one's own family, life experiences and the things which one values most. It also demostrates that is there is much more to a state and life than politics, current economics or one's net worth. Though some move to CA to become the next Movie Star or Silicon Valley billionaire. For many like us CA represents so much more like home, family, tradition, all things West Coast including deserts, mountains, redwood forests, beautiful coastlines. Then there are the great multicultural influences of international cities, cuisine, fresh produce, etc... The moderate year round weather in merely icing on the cake, though we definately enjoy it.
For those from other states or who enjoy other climates more (i.e. southwest heat, midwest/east coast extreme temp variations/seasons) it doesn't mean as much to them. They don't really get it. And I don't even expect them to. If you don't love the outdoors, hiking in the Sierras one week and surfiing/sailing/kayaking etc... the next it seems overrated. And for some it really isn't worth the price of admission. But for many Californians there is no place which compares.
Living in CO for a time I could see the same thing from natives Coloradans. The Rocky Mountains and all other things Colorado were more important than all the politics of the days and other junk combined. Its much more than the sum of its parts which could be placed on a graph and added up by a bean counter or political pollster. Rather its a way of life that some ppl just don't get or fully appreciate. That is why it truly is subjective based on the things one values most in life, family being one of them for us. That was a big draw for us returning from CO to CA. The rest of the politics and other things are in the noise. Though ppl on forums like this really enjoy getting all worked up about them, especially right before leaving. Then they seem baffled when others don't think the same way. The truth is CA was a great state before and it still is for many residents fully enjoying the CA way of life today. We plan on staying here as long as we can. If work forces a move at some point of course we'll do that. But CA will always be our home and the place we'll want to return to if we ever do move away for a season.
Derek
Thank you for your opinion .. but as you stated.. it's subjective and a personal decision. Some people care for different weather.. climates.. etc .. it's not that they don't appreciate mountains kayaking.. etc... they might actually prefer different geography. Most people work Mon-Fri. 71% of the year are working days... I don't know many who go kayaking in the middle of the week.. and w/ kids to raise, I don't think you will be doing a whole lot after work besides tending to them... So then comes those treasured 2 days of the week and you find yourself wondering what to do ... there is more than enough to do in other places IMO. Having not been raised in CA, I had a great and fun child hood. One of the things myself and my parents did was travel a lot.. within the state and out of it.. This was most afforded by the extra disposable income they had. Although I hear your subjective view on the matter.. I still see remarks like 'appreciate' etc creep through.... How many residents of California are able to appreciate a very warm beach year round? Snorkeling .. Diving.. Playing w/ dolphins .. Its always possible to whip out a list of fun things to do in any given place in the U.S .. What you will find is people eventually settle on a set of activities amongst the large array and adapt and find happiness in them.
I wonder what percentage of California residents ever travel (in the state) or out of it.... You would think sometimes that people from this state have never seen anything outside its borders the way they talk about it...
You would think sometimes that people from this state have never seen anything outside its borders the way they talk about it...
I think it's just the opposite actually. Most people are from "elsewhere" and appreciate the difference.
I agree with faithhope7 that most of the natives who have big love for CA have it for emotional reasons more than for what the State has to offer. Although I think we do take a lot for granted and only miss it when we leave. Moving somewhere "better,cheaper,safer,less crowded,whatever" doesn't appeal to me because I have no ties anywhere but here. And those ties are really strong and go back a couple generations.
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We plan on staying here as long as we can. If work forces a move at some point of course we'll do that. But CA will always be our home and the place we'll want to return to if we ever do move away for a season.
