Best/Worst States for Business (unemployment rate, tax rates, shops)
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We owned one and saw this train wreck coming 6 years ago when we fled CA. Brown will increase income taxes and every other tax he can to feed the masses. We paid way too much for workmans comp and our income taxes were heading upward as well. We also got sick of the "victim" mentality of our employees so off we went. The EPA has made it increasingly hard to develop which has slowed construction over the decades and made it more expensive build. The new "green" code will also add significant cost to housing. This cost is passed on to the consumer in the end. That said, I should also add that CA will always have wealth and will always attract a certain populous. It was one of the most beautiful states in the union and maybe someday will become one again. Not in my lifetime, but perhaps generations from now.
I have read multiple articles on business leaving California and TV/internet interviews from economist, business owners and politicians. The number of businesses leaving California per week is a range estimated by several sources.
I'm sure you have, but that says little about the truth of the matter. Furthermore, it should be obvious, but looking at the number of businesses leaving without looking at the number of businesses coming makes little sense. Business relocate all the time, there is no state that is universally better for all businesses.
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Originally Posted by Don9
You are a business owners and you don't want lower taxes, less regulation, etc?
Right, I'm not sure why you find this odd. My after tax income and the number of regulations I have to deal with aren't the only things that matter. I value a strong social model and don't mind paying higher taxes to support it, though, I wish California would put a bit more of a burden on low/mid income folks. Low/mid income folks in California don't pay enough taxes, yet ironically they are the ones doing most of the complaining.
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Originally Posted by Don9
I'm still waiting for your proof Jan Norman is a partisan or right-wing hack ...
What exactly are you going to accept as proof? You are obviously right-wing...so its difficult to see what you'd accept as proof.
Tax is not the only factor in the cost of doing business in California ... regulations, unions, insurance are among several other contributing factors.
Most taxes aren't a "cost of doing business", instead they are paid on profits. The taxes that aren't profit based are actually pretty low in California compared to other states, that is property tax, business property tax, etc.
In terms the other issues. Regulations don't effect businesses equally, a tech start-up in the Silicon Valley isn't going to notice much of a regulatory difference between a tech start-up in Austin, TX. On the other hand, a polluting manufacture would notice a big difference. What is the solution here though? Allowing pollution in the most populous state in the union?! Unions aren't a factor in small businesses and insurance isn't dramatically more in California than other states. Workman's comp is higher than average, but this isn't a major expense to began with, especially for a company with a good tract record. Furthermore, larger businesses can self-insurance. At the end of the day, a small business is going to pay around 15% in addition to salary when it employees someone full-time. This number doesn't change dramatically from state to state, perhaps by just around -/+ 2%.
I would add as well, most small businesses have no employees, instead they are family businesses (or just owned and run by an individual) and unless they decide to incorporate, they don't have to pay any payroll taxes. Even if they do incorporate, they'd only have to pay unemployment taxes (around $500/year) as California exempts employee/owners from workmans comp and SDI.
Anyhow, the vast majority of the "California is bad for business" is political in nature, it has little to do with reality and anybody that knows about business realizes this fact. Though, certainly some business folks are happy to use the rhetoric as a means to an end (more money in their pocket). Personally, I don't care that much, at the end of the day I'm already on the top of the hill so a low-tax, low-service model is just going to line my pockets, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing a duck for a duck and feeling bad for the fact that kids growing up in California today won't benefit from the same things I did, the things that got me to where I am today.
I'm sure you have, but that says little about the truth of the matter. Furthermore, it should be obvious, but looking at the number of businesses leaving without looking at the number of businesses coming makes little sense. Business relocate all the time, there is no state that is universally better for all businesses.
Right, I'm not sure why you find this odd. My after tax income and the number of regulations I have to deal with aren't the only things that matter. I value a strong social model and don't mind paying higher taxes to support it, though, I wish California would put a bit more of a burden on low/mid income folks. Low/mid income folks in California don't pay enough taxes, yet ironically they are the ones doing most of the complaining.
What exactly are you going to accept as proof? You are obviously right-wing...so its difficult to see what you'd accept as proof.
Right wing? I'm conservative not liberal but I'm not a republican and have voted for democrats, republicans and independents in the past. I vote for the best choice who I feel can do the better job.
Proof on your claim that Jan Norman is a right-wing partisan hack is providing links to something she produced that supports your assertion.
Proof on your claim that Jan Norman is a right-wing partisan hack is providing links to something she produced that supports your assertion.
You already provided such a link and this is just the point, you're not going to accept this as proof because you are you agree with the rhetoric. Ironically you were misled by it, you used it as proof that 1 and 6 businesses are leaving California yet the article provides no such proof. Journalist know most people only read the titles and and first few paragraphs, so they put their rhetoric there and put the details in the middle, that way they aren't lying...just misleading.
Its not like right-wing pundits are the only one using this tactic, its just more common as their position's lately and increasingly divorced from reality.
You already provided such a link and this is just the point, you're not going to accept this as proof because you are you agree with the rhetoric. Ironically you were misled by it, you used it as proof that 1 and 6 businesses are leaving California yet the article provides no such proof. Journalist know most people only read the titles and and first few paragraphs, so they put their rhetoric there and put the details in the middle, that way they aren't lying...just misleading.
Its not like right-wing pundits are the only one using this tactic, its just more common as their position's lately and increasingly divorced from reality.
I never said that 1 and 6 businesses are leaving California ...
Your response on providing proof (links) that Jan Norman is a partisan right-wing hack is a joke and again shows your lack of credibility and political slant. In other words you can't find any proof because there is none. I even provided a list of her archived articles for you to choose from. You just demonized her to in a lame attempt to discredit my source and my assertion but when I called you on it you folded ...
I never said that 1 and 6 businesses are leaving California ...
Right, you just posted the article with the misleading title. Its the "6 small businesses a week" claim that you made, which is entirely insignificant (far more than that are created each week...).
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Originally Posted by Don9
Your response on providing proof (links) that Jan Norman is a partisan right-wing hack is a joke and again shows your lack of credibility and political slant.
Like I said, using the articles as proof isn't going to work with you because you are one of the converts. And yet, its obvious that the article you posted is trying to mislead, in particular it gives the impression that 1 in 6 small businesses is leaving California when the actual data cited in the article doesn't support this...
When did I deny having a political slant? Everyone has a political slant, but that is much different than utilizing cheap rhetoric, misleading articles, etc to support a position.
Right, you just posted the article with the misleading title. Its the "6 small businesses a week" claim that you made, which is entirely insignificant (far more than that are created each week...).
Like I said, using the articles as proof isn't going to work with you because you are one of the converts. And yet, its obvious that the article you posted is trying to mislead, in particular it gives the impression that 1 in 6 small businesses is leaving California when the actual data cited in the article doesn't support this...
When did I deny having a political slant? Everyone has a political slant, but that is much different than utilizing cheap rhetoric, misleading articles, etc to support a position.
Yes, I stated 6 small businesses leaving California per week and like I said this is an estimate from one source and other sources have similar numbers making a range. You think 6 small businesses leaving per week is insignificant? Show me numbers that support your assertion "far more than that are created each week". Just because you make these statements does not make it so but if you provided credible sources than I will listen.
How is using the article I posted proof that Jan Norman is a right-wing hack? Just becasue she wrote about results of a recent survey by Small Business California? What in the article supports your assertion that Jan Norman is a partisan right-wing hack?
I didn't use cheap rhetoric, misleading articles, etc to support my position. Look at my sources ... are any from right-wing partisan sources? No! I even provided data/link from the Tax Foundation. This is all you trying to discredit and undermine my supporting data, which you can't, and you provide no data, no links, just you saying it's so ...
Yes, I stated 6 small businesses leaving California per week and like I said this is an estimate from one source and other sources have similar numbers making a range. You think 6 small businesses leaving per week is insignificant? Show me numbers that support your assertion "far more than that are created each week".
Yes, its extremely insignificant. There are 3.4 million small businesses in California and you think the fact that 300 are leaving matters?! In fact, this number has to be wrong, far more businesses are likely to leave than this. In terms of the number, sure, approximately 650,000 small businesses are created each year...which the last time I checked was vastly greater than 300. Of course, a lot of businesses go out of business each year too.
archive.sba.gov/advo/research/profiles/08ca.pdf
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Originally Posted by Don9
How is using the article I posted proof that Jan Norman is a right-wing hack?
Already explained this.
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Originally Posted by Don9
I didn't use cheap rhetoric, misleading articles, etc to support my position. Look at my sources ... are any from right-wing partisan sources? No!
Yes, they are, the fact that you don't know this is very telling. Jan Norman is a well know right-wing partisan, this isn't a big secret. The Tax Foundation is a conservative organization, again, not a big secret.
There are 2.8 Million companies in California and our growth is more affected by companies folding completely than by companies moving.
We've had this discussion on C-D before and the notion that there is a tidal wave of companies leaving relative to the size of this, most enormous of states, has been debunked-resoundly.
Neither Texas nor any other state is really making a dent in California.
They wish.
Its been whittled down to $9.6 Billion. Through increased revenue and spending cuts.
We would end our deficit if we werent so undertaxed.
Yes and that is due to a national housing meltdown which hit CA worse than anywhere else. Its not due to overtaxation of companies that are causing them to leave.
Undertaxed? Really what are you smoking? Just a comparison my home state of Indiana's Tax rates are about 60% cheaper than Californias and our budget is balanced cause we made the needed cuts to government. Now i understand what my family members say why california is doomed lol.
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This is a good and fair response .. +1 rep point
