Welcome back affirmative action in education (zoned, restaurant, plantations)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

Tell me why the Asians of recent generations have higher enrollment in UC's than African Americans? Is it because of the affirmative action policy?

I don't know, could have something to do with the fact that blacks were slaves for centuries in the US and just fairly recently had equal rights.

The purpose of affirmative action is to level the playing field.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by user_id

I don't know, could have something to do with the fact that blacks were slaves for centuries in the US and just fairly recently had equal rights.

The purpose of affirmative action is to level the playing field.

Yet I would venture a guess that many, if not most, of the Asians, nor their parents, have been in this country since 1965. That seems to level things out somewhat. If my supposition is correct, they haven't had civil/equal rights until fairly recently either.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Yet I would venture a guess that many, if not most, of the Asians, nor their parents, have been in this country since 1965. That seems to level things out somewhat. If my supposition is correct, they haven't had civil/equal rights until fairly recently either.

They have their language/culture.. that america didn't destroy. They have a society that views them as equals.. They don't have a history leading into the civil rights movement of slavery.. I don't recall seeing swaths of them getting hosed, burned, and hung during the civil rights movement...

Thus why its better to speak on absolute instead of relative terms as the relative comparisons are usually not correct .. In this case, Asians didn't go through anywhere near in scale what African Americans went through in this country and thus why the comparison of them to African Americans is not correct...

Also, be careful about your comparison of Asians in this country and how long they have been here... I know a lot of Asian people my parents age and older who came over through highly skilled worker programs..

Recent immigration trends :



As with other racial and ethnicity based terms, formal and common usage have changed markedly through the short history of this term. The most significant change occurred when the Hart-Celler Act of 1965 eliminated highly restrictive "national origins" quotas, designed, among other things, to restrict immigration of those of Asian racial background.[5] The new system, based on skills and family connections to U.S. residents, enabled significant immigration from every nation in Asia, which led to dramatic and ongoing changes in the Asian American population. As a result of these population changes, the formal and common understandings of what defines Asian American have expanded to include more of the peoples with ancestry from various parts of Asia. Because of their more recent immigration, new Asian immigrants also have had different educational, economic and other characteristics than early 20th century immigrants. They also tend to have different employment and settlement patterns in the United States.

^ Magical isn't it

.. A simple fact of the matter is that there are sh*t tons of Asian people in the world .. the vast majority of 'Asian' immigrant population that began to take root in America was 'hand picked'.... i guess you get expected results no?.... zero out the African American population in the U.S that has a history of set backs and hand pick people from the continent of Africa.. the results would be similar.

[Curmudgeon]

More excuses and cherry-picked facts. Quite a number are missing but one can't reason with a made up mind. Ta!

[True Freedom]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

And tell me why there are so many African American paid athletes in the NFL and NBA that far outweighs the number of Asians and Hispanics? Should we have affirmative action policy in place as well?

But then again, what do I know? I'm not someone who is government or is a sociologist, or even a historian like yeaththatguy keeps preaching about. Therefore, I don't have a friggin' clue and my opinion is wrong.

As for the NBA, I think it's less of a racial thing, and more of a, well, stature thing. Short guys are definitely discriminated against. I think there should be more short guys allowed in the NBA.. I mean, 6'9" is certainly not representative of the population at large.

For generations, the short guy was either left out of or picked last in every basketball game known to man.

Of course, detractors will argue that "well, Spud Webb made it, why can't you". I don't have a good answer for that one..

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Yet I would venture a guess that many, if not most, of the Asians, nor their parents, have been in this country since 1965. That seems to level things out somewhat. If my supposition is correct, they haven't had civil/equal rights until fairly recently either.

This is an apples vs. oranges argument. The major factor about many Asians in America advancing have a lot to do with their educational background and little to do with how long they were in the country. A lot of recent Asian immigrants come here with fairly high educational attainments...which equips them with the skills and knowledge to get ahead in the USA. Your average Korean immigrant dry cleaning store operator probably was a teacher, engineer, or other middle-class professional back in the old country. So it's not surprising that his kids will go to UCLA or other university.

Now by contrast, the older Chinatown immigrant may have came from a more humble background, and may not have had the opportunities and skills to advance, so they had less social and economic mobility. Their kids may be a bit different though.

In a similar vein, Cuban Americans as a group have been able to advance pretty quickly in the US socially and economically (relative to other Hispanic groups) because they have higher educational attainments on average, than say, Mexicans. Much of the group who first came in the 1960s were of the middle class and brought their skills with them. Also consider the context - the political climate was also more welcoming for Cubans to settle in the US - thanks to the Cold War (Cuban Adjustment Act), they were able to gain residency and citizenship fairly quickly. They were also able to gain political clout very well, especially in South Florida - since they entered into a political and economic vacuum at the time - FL was a sleepy state.

There is simply no comparison of the Asian experience in America with the African American experience.

[silverkris]

Originally Posted by True Freedom

As for the NBA, I think it's less of a racial thing, and more of a, well, stature thing. Short guys are definitely discriminated against. I think there should be more short guys allowed in the NBA.. I mean, 6'9" is certainly not representative of the population at large.

For generations, the short guy was either left out of or picked last in every basketball game known to man.

Of course, detractors will argue that "well, Spud Webb made it, why can't you". I don't have a good answer for that one..

Anyway, these days, the NBA is becoming more international. You're getting more and more Europeans coming into the league, for example - Dirk Nowitzki.

The thing is, remember, in the old days, cultural/racial/ethnic groups who were marginalized or had fewer economic opportunities often saw sports as a way out and ahead. In the early days of the NBA, you probably had a lot more Irish and Italian American star players. As there were more economic opportunities for these groups....they gave way to African Americans.

Similarly, in baseball, you can see the rise of Latin American stars as well - trying to escape poverty in countries like the Dominican Republic.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

More excuses and cherry-picked facts. Quite a number are missing but one can't reason with a made up mind. Ta!

Touche' . You have yet to even attempt making an argument .. If you disagree w/ any points, point out which and why and we can discuss them. Otherwise, you're just ----nah noiiiisee---

Are we done here?

[tickyul]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Blacks in Africa didn't suffer a mere generation of horrors of war in their homelands and then find welcome opportunity to willingly choose a new kind of life and freedom, in a modern land across the sea, a land where civil rights laws were in place. Blacks were treated like livestock for hundreds of years in a land with no protections or support systems -- and since subjected to historical discriminatory suspicion, belittlement, denial of dignity and legal rights and a great deal of outright hatred.

Much of this attitude is very much still in place today, as evidenced by your irrelevant protestations. You clearly don't know crap about facts, as you claim. You have no experience with the events -- only with your own subliminal racist imprinting.

I cannot make the point much clearer, the people I referenced ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED THEIR FAMILIES BEING SLAUGHTERED............MANY TIMES THEY WERE FORCED TO WATCH...............they came to this country and for the most part, got on with their lives, became successful.

Nobody alive today in the USA, has ever been legally enslaved in this country.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by tickyul

I cannot make the point much clearer, the people I referenced ACTUALLY EXPERIENCED THEIR FAMILIES BEING SLAUGHTERED............MANY TIMES THEY WERE FORCED TO WATCH...............they came to this country and for the most part, got on with their lives, became successful.

Nobody alive today in the USA, has ever been legally enslaved in this country.

Someone seems to have a problem reading or is conveniently pretending they can't read :

German reparations for World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germany end World War One reparations after 92 years with £59m final payment | Mail Online
Germany finishes paying WWI reparations, ending century of 'guilt' - CSMonitor.com
Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jews were helped 500x over by the world ... and there is a big difference between someone systematically wiping out your culture/identity/language over a period of 500 years and going through another 100 years of existing in a country that doesn't view you as equals than going through a short period in which someone tries to exterminate you .. some people survive.. the world saves you from such.. those who have survived keep their culture/identity/language and are welcomed into a country in 'select' fashion .. many of which the top minds and aptitude and are allowed to flourish as a people .. Strange that you don't get this but I think its particularly that you dont want to get it and just want to find some excuse to think a group of people just have something wrong w/ them other than healing from 100s of years of hell this country put them through ....

Try flourishing in a country that wont even let you drink from the same water fountain as another race.. Oh hell, that was nazi germany ... Welcome to the world in which African Americans lived in (in AMERICA) until the late 1960's .. early 1970s .. aka my teenage father. On my visit to Germany, I don't exactly see jews flourishing there in large #'s... B.T.W Jews under the Nazi's was : 1933–1939 .. so, by rough count, you are 2 generations off from your hell whereas african americans are just one generation .. didn't get reparations and before civil rights went through hell for 100s of years of slavery.. Thanks for understanding the difference between the two. /sarcasm