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Old 07-29-2011, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,659 posts, read 67,548,962 times
Reputation: 21244

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
California does not have an income problem, it has a spending problem.
Yes, we spend too much on overlapping bureacracy, too much on prisons and corrections, too much on public pensions.

Quote:
as hundreds of previous posts from conservatives and moderates have pointed out. Liberals still do not get it, just tax the "Evil Companies" and the "Rich" and everything is solved.
Actually getting them to pay their proportionate share would do a lot to solve our fiscal problems.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:28 AM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,659 posts, read 67,548,962 times
Reputation: 21244
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408
Does anyone find it suspicious that we hear the same message over and over again yet no one offers concrete data that we are losing jobs/businesses/etc.
There is no data to substantiate a correlation between business tax rates in CA and job losses. None whatsoever. Its a NeoCon myth.

The overwhelming majority of job losses in CA are explicitely tied to the housing meltdown which was a national event that affected CA worse because of high home equity.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,889,363 times
Reputation: 28563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I couldn't agree more with some of your thoughts...

The gasoline tax is the perfect example of money no longer going to where they said it was going... the gasoline tax was called the Highway Tax and it's sole purpose was to fund roads... the taxpayers were promised a network of interconnecting highways where I live, the property was bought and the right-of-ways secured... none of the these ever came to fruition because of diversion of the tax money...
The gas tax, don't get me started. Separate issue, I want more transit funding. Portions of the gas tax etc is supposed to fund transit. This money is the first money to get raided by the government for other issues. Then we find "ballot box" initiatives for more transit funding (or other topic) and then that fund gets raided for something else, and it is still underfunded.

Quote:
My father paid into Social Security for over 50 years and received 6 checks prior to his death...
I have been paying into SS for 18 years so far, I am not hopeful that I will get any money when I retire in 32 years.
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Old 07-29-2011, 11:01 AM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,687,353 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Yes, we spend too much on overlapping bureacracy...
There is real merit in the overlapping bureacracy arguement...

The last 10 years has shown an ever increasing number of agencies at the front door checking for compliance and billing for their permit, license, review, compliance check, etc...

Mind you, the business has never had a single violation...

The fees come from the utility district, city, county, special districts, Bay Area Air Quality District, State, Federal...

20 years, 90% of these agencies did not exist or, it they did, no fees were required...

I've been told many times not to complain because I am the compliance officer... so it's job security even though it diverts resources and adds to cost.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:02 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,506,753 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
There is no data to substantiate a correlation between business tax rates in CA and job losses. None whatsoever. Its a NeoCon myth.

The overwhelming majority of job losses in CA are explicitely tied to the housing meltdown which was a national event that affected CA worse because of high home equity.
People believe what they want to believe most often ..
Many times it goes against fact/data/historical record/reality.

Taxes/cost are what caused jobs to leave America .. Yet, you posit that California is immune ..

You're going against base logic and proven history all w/ no data/facts to argue against it .. I'm not going to .. Believe what you want. It's not going to change a d*m thing about reality though. Given that.. As you were !
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Old 07-29-2011, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,260,509 times
Reputation: 6920
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Taxes/cost are what caused jobs to leave America .. Yet, you posit that California is immune ..
Taxes had nothing to do with jobs leaving the U.S. It was pretty much tied to labor costs and the fact that with overseas markets growing faster, companies wanted their operations to be closer to those customers. The tax argument is a canard foisted by a bunch of cheap teabaggers who don't want to pay.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:36 PM
 
28,115 posts, read 63,687,353 times
Reputation: 23268
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Taxes had nothing to do with jobs leaving the U.S. It was pretty much tied to labor costs and the fact that with overseas markets growing faster, companies wanted their operations to be closer to those customers. The tax argument is a canard foisted by a bunch of cheap teabaggers who don't want to pay.
Controlling cost and the ability to produce a profitable product is always the root of rational business decisions...

A nearby town wanted to close gun shops so it passed a special tax that only applied to gun sales which added about 25% to the purchase price vs buying the same firearm in outside the city limits...

Taxes are a factor. So is the ability to produce a part... some industrial products have been forced off-shore or out of California just to continue...

When I was growing-up, there were two pages of plating shops in the phone book... all are now gone... same for almost all the foundries... regulation, for better or worse forced these businesses to move.

I personally know other businesses that have moved from Oakland since the city imposed business taxes with varying rates... why stay and pay the tax when you can perform the same function outside the city limits...

Interesting how business that cannot move has to pay the highest business tax
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:00 PM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,712,723 times
Reputation: 23295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
There is real merit in the overlapping bureacracy arguement...

The last 10 years has shown an ever increasing number of agencies at the front door checking for compliance and billing for their permit, license, review, compliance check, etc...

Mind you, the business has never had a single violation...

The fees come from the utility district, city, county, special districts, Bay Area Air Quality District, State, Federal...

20 years, 90% of these agencies did not exist or, it they did, no fees were required...

I've been told many times not to complain because I am the compliance officer... so it's job security even though it diverts resources and adds to cost.
Death by a thousand cuts. That is what the Government is doing to business in California.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:39 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,506,753 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Taxes had nothing to do with jobs leaving the U.S. It was pretty much tied to labor costs and the fact that with overseas markets growing faster, companies wanted their operations to be closer to those customers. The tax argument is a canard foisted by a bunch of cheap teabaggers who don't want to pay.
As if taxes are not a part of production costs .. Ever heard of margins? Taxes can make the difference between being profitable and not in some cases...

I'm not a teabagger and am very informed about economics .. But make whatever statement you need to in order to disregard economics/math and just common business sense.

People believe what they want .. *Proven over and over again.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,184,310 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
I believe in progressive taxes: for rich Republicans and Democrats. There is a point where you won't notice the money is missing. Does anyone making over $100M a year really notice the difference between 33% and 38%? Didn't think so.

(I don't think the higher rates on progressive taxes should start until $1M in annual income. We can leave the rates lower until then, sparing about 95% of Americans (and Californians) higher taxes.
You do realize there are perhaps only a few people in California who earn $100M a year? Steve Jobs doesn't. Larry Ellison doesn't. They have wealth in excess of that, but not income. So if you raise income taxes on these very wealthy people, the state will only gain a bit of income.
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