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Why would anyone want to put themselves in a gutter. The kind and type of language that has become mainstream within the schools and in other public places needs to be eliminated from the way that we speak. Using language that inspires and lifts people up should be the order of the day within our educational system. we need to stop drawing a line in the sand and saying that you can do everything but this one thing. That may be one of the biggest problems with our educational system. Our kids are not attending school to have sex, get stones, drunk or what have you. Our kids should not be there to learn that it is acceptable to use language that uneducated people use.
The truth is that our kids have found that it is acceptable to have sex at school, get stoned, get drunk, talk in an offensive manner. It happens everyday. The bar is set so low that it has been eliminated from our educational system.
darnest thing a good post u got rep. no problem but i have noticed on CDF when a moderator posts no matter how good it is, its the same effect as when a cop pulled behind u on the freeway, everybody slows down.
i wish it was no like that many of these are good posts and correct.
many of my friends are cops.
... Our kids should not be there to learn that it is acceptable to use language that uneducated people use.
I have been following this thread a bit on and off with great amusement ... while I don't promote obscenity as a virtue, I certainly don't think it, or its lack, is a measure of a person's worth. Obscenity is the mark of the "uneducated?" With multiple undergraduate and graduate degrees in arts and sciences both, as well as extremely deep worldly experience to go with, bet I am as "educated" as anyone participating in this forum.
And I swear like the sailor I am.
Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my a**.
[And don't talk to me about lack of creative vocabulary. One of my professions, perhaps the one through which I earned the most over the years, was as a writer.]
I have been following this thread a bit on and off with great amusement ... while I don't promote obscenity as a virtue, I certainly don't think it, or its lack, is a measure of a person's worth. Obscenity is the mark of the "uneducated?" With multiple undergraduate and graduate degrees in arts and sciences both, as well as extremely deep worldly experience to go with, bet I am as "educated" as anyone participating in this forum.
And I swear like the sailor I am.
Anyone who doesn't like it can kiss my a**.
[And don't talk to me about lack of creative vocabulary. One of my professions, perhaps the one through which I earned the most over the years, was as a writer.]
Would you agree that obscenity is the mark of the unrefined? Especially since we seem to be educating people and saying it is OK to use obscene words. My thoughts are that the educated could come up with so much more than an obscene word or thought to get there point across. Then again if it is ok to say bad words in school, many may assume that it is ok or acceptable to use those words in everyday life.
Would you agree that most seem to use these words when they add nothing to the conversation. When someone tells me "big f n deal", or "what the F", or many other uses of that word and others I find that the need for dirty words was not needed. I have read some of the greatest writings of the Western world and can't find any that have the words that we are talking about. Then again my memory may have let me down from time to time. I would think that if the greatest minds that the world had provided us with could refrain from writing those words that others within the business of writing would want to emulate them that went before. I could be wrong.
With multiple undergraduate and graduate degrees in arts and sciences both, as well as extremely deep worldly experience to go with, bet I am as "educated" as anyone participating in this forum ...
[And don't talk to me about lack of creative vocabulary. One of my professions, perhaps the one through which I earned the most over the years, was as a writer.]
Your disingenuousness is both tiresome and transparent. If you think anyone is seriously going to believe that the Catholic Church doesn't forbid, condemn and punish crimes of this nature (for which the perps were justly convicted), you're dumber than a sack of potatoes.
Your disingenuousness is both tiresome and transparent. If you think anyone is seriously going to believe that the Catholic Church doesn't forbid, condemn and punish crimes of this nature (for which the perps were justly convicted), you're dumber than a sack of potatoes.
There's nothing a bit "disingenuous" about me in this post ... I am very genuinely disgusted with your preaching to others about the virtues of your religion and the crass immorality of those who live apart from its dogma. And if anyone reads the article they will find that the church's self appointed commission to investigate the abuses of the past deliberately ignored this one I cite despite it having been brought to their attention. Furthermore, the priests involved in the specific cases of sexual abuse were convicted for those instances of abuse, but the retaliatory castrations of the innocent victims of the abuse were not acknowledged or atoned. Your church hasn't stepped forward in these matters with any willingness. They don't show any true remorse or accountability beyond what has been forced upon them.
You want to continue holding up your religious culture as a beacon of illumination for the world's heathen? Expect response based on the facts of documented abuse that contradicts your arrogance.
(And whatever in the world does a list of Catholic scientists have to do with anything?)
Not particularly ... specifically when it serves to point out your foolish assumptions. Do you never tire of complimenting your religious righteousness??
And if anyone reads the article they will find that the church's self appointed commission to investigate the abuses of the past deliberately ignored this one I cite despite it having been brought to their attention. Furthermore, the priests involved in the specific cases of sexual abuse were convicted for those instances of abuse, but the retaliatory castrations of the innocent victims of the abuse were not acknowledged or atoned. Your church hasn't stepped forward in these matters with any willingness. They don't show any true remorse or accountability beyond what has been forced upon them.
You want to continue holding up your religious culture as a beacon of illumination for the world's heathen? Expect response based on the facts of documented abuse that contradicts your arrogance.
(And whatever in the world does a list of Catholic scientists have to do with anything?)
Can your phony and contrived "disgust", threadjacker. You brought up Catholicism in this thread, not me, which is par for the course, and you do a whole lot more preaching around here than I do.
And you don't actually know the first thing about this story. You don't have any idea how willing or unwilling any of the informed parties might have been in stepping forward, or what their names are, or if they were truly informed at all.
But you do know, on some level, that accepting the sloppy assertions of a virulently anti-Catholic British media is the height of gullibility. I don't believe for a moment that the Catholic Church, if it knew about these criminal castrations or even suspected them, has never acknowledged or condemned them.
Bottom line is this: the Church is the oldest and the largest institution in the world, and is therefore the easiest target imaginable. If a Catholic in 2012 wants to do something in California that you don't like, we can count on you digging up all the horrible things Catholics have ever done throughout history - real and imagined. It's tiresome and completely disingenuous. You don't use this line of attack against any other institution because you know that it's intellectually dishonest and logically fallacious.
As for the Catholic scientists, the link was provided in response to your implying that the Church should not be involved in education.
How about we return to the topic of this thread?
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 03-20-2012 at 06:16 PM..
Would you agree that obscenity is the mark of the unrefined? Especially since we seem to be educating people and saying it is OK to use obscene words. My thoughts are that the educated could come up with so much more than an obscene word or thought to get there point across. Then again if it is ok to say bad words in school, many may assume that it is ok or acceptable to use those words in everyday life.
Would you agree that most seem to use these words when they add nothing to the conversation. When someone tells me "big f n deal", or "what the F", or many other uses of that word and others I find that the need for dirty words was not needed. I have read some of the greatest writings of the Western world and can't find any that have the words that we are talking about. Then again my memory may have let me down from time to time. I would think that if the greatest minds that the world had provided us with could refrain from writing those words that others within the business of writing would want to emulate them that went before. I could be wrong.
No, I would not say obscenity is a mark of unrefinement – or the uneducated. And I think the key issue here is being over-looked. Such language, used repetitively, is less than creative, yes. But coarse, obscene language is not a measure of a person’s character, heart, or contribution to society.
Is a person’s linguistic creativity a good benchmark for value to society? Consider this: last I checked, all the folks who crashed the economy, run roughshod over individual freedoms through politics, start wars (unnecessarily), create and design and market toxic products that poison populations and decimate critical resources, and so forth are pretty damn educated and culturally “refined”.
At the same time, most loggers and miners, and commercial fishermen, farmers, tradesmen of all kinds, military, mechanics, truck drivers, and laborers, etc., who tend to be less educated and less culturally refined don’t seem to cause all that much trouble in spite of their linguistics being more likely to contain liberal profanities.
I have had friendships with many artists, symphony musicians, doctors, lawyers, educators – and many with the types of labor intensive, risk-intensive lifestyle mentioned in the preceding paragraph. Probably my closest friendships are with a cadre of other war veterans – who, between us, represent quite a list of the most highly regarded military decorations for sacrifice and lifesaving under the harshest of conditions. While conversation in a room with us is blue with foul language and laughter, these are the kinds of men (and women) who will stand up first to do the tough stuff to protect, serve, and nurture (and have). I do not consider them, or the later group of labor intensive professions a bit less refined than the former, i.e. doctors and lawyers, etc. Rugged, coarse, sure. Unrefined? You live with your definition. I’ll live with mine.
You talk about what our kids are going to school to learn – and how profanity interferes? What our kids are being herded into schools for is nothing to be particularly proud of, imho. Conformation to the kinds of competitive, materialistic, judgmental mentalities that perpetuate our culture of self-absorption is a far greater profanity to me than a limited vocabulary.
As for great writing and obscenity? Phbbbt. It is common in great literature of modern times.
Can your phony and contrived "disgust", threadjacker. You brought up Catholicism in this thread, not me, which is par for the course, and you do a whole lot more preaching around here than I do.
And you don't actually know the first thing about this story. You don't have any idea how willing or unwilling any of the informed parties might have been in stepping forward, or what their names are, or if they were truly informed at all.
But you do know, on some level, that accepting the sloppy assertions of a virulently anti-Catholic British media is the height of gullibility. I don't believe for a moment that the Catholic Church, if it knew about these criminal castrations or even suspected them, has never acknowledged or condemned them.
Bottom line is this: the Church is the oldest and the largest institution in the world, and is therefore the easiest target imaginable. If a Catholic in 2012 wants to do something in California that you don't like, we can count on you digging up all the horrible things Catholics have ever done throughout history - real and imagined. It's tiresome and completely disingenuous. You don't use this line of attack against any other institution because you know that it's intellectually dishonest and logically fallacious.
As for the Catholic scientists, the link was provided in response to your implying that the Church should not be involved in education.
How about we return to the topic of this thread?
Hey pope Pilgrim, I didn't bring up Catholicism first, nor the topics of abuse by the church, there are 11 pages of posts filled with negative comments before me ... take note of just one response at random from the middle of this thread so far:
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim
Hear, hear. At least we Catholics come together on book burning!
You think your version of morality, mimicking your church's dogma, is suitable judgment for book-burning. Thread after thread, post after post you extoll the virtues of your beliefs in terms of condemnation of non-believers. And no one does as much preaching around here as you. I don't even come close. In fact, I have hardly posted in the past couple weeks. Really, it is your unique brand of arrogant bigotry that brings this out in me. As I've pointed out before, I don't respond to other posters' mention of religion, just yours pretty much. Why? Because you represent a perniciously sick brand of supercilious, inquisitor's personality. Stick it, Pilgrim.
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