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Old 07-13-2012, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Declezville, CA
16,806 posts, read 39,950,586 times
Reputation: 17694

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What did he lose?
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,151,872 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
Fine. You lose. Bye.

Come back when you can conduct some measure of professional sociology or anthropology.
Naw.. Null makes perfect sense... Freedom is an obligation.. Basic stuff really, no need for bla bla..
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:33 PM
 
583 posts, read 884,731 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
Freedom is an obligation.
Then slavery must be freedom, right?
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:40 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,484,310 times
Reputation: 29337
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
Fine. You lose. Bye.

Come back when you can conduct some measure of professional sociology or anthropology.
Oh bother! Another "superior" contrarian! This is a chat board for all intents and purposes. Nothing here is rocket science which is a simple thing anyway - pointy end up, fiery end down!
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:04 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,900,367 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
Then slavery must be freedom, right?
Freedom is a state of mind and spirit.
If you find the limitations of social systems -- bands, tribal, statist -- are never acceptable, you will never be free.

You may live outside of society within it and be free.
There is no greater anonymity than in the major urban chaos.

Or you can live outside of society as a hermit in one of the remaining wildernesses --
and be a slave to your survival requirements.

Or you can live, even as a slave, within society, and love life --
and be free.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:05 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,900,367 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Oh bother! Another "superior" contrarian! This is a chat board for all intents and purposes. Nothing here is rocket science which is a simple thing anyway - pointy end up, fiery end down!
Freedom is dry feet and boots, eh, Chief?
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:13 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,484,310 times
Reputation: 29337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Freedom is dry feet and boots, eh, Chief?
And a full canteen!
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:14 AM
 
583 posts, read 884,731 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Freedom is a state of mind and spirit.
So a prisoner with a cheery outlook who's actually quite fond of the arrangement, the shelter, the abundance of provisions, the predictable arrival of food, the access to health care, the camaraderie with the men, can properly be called "free?"

On the day of his release back into a world he found uncomfortable, you would argue that he lost his freedom?

This legitimate parsing of your passage is downright terrifying and illustrates the Orwellian horror in collectivism:

Quote:
[Y]ou can live...as a slave...and be free.
You'd send a man to the gulag and arrogantly think you've done him a favor. This doublespeak permits the commission of unbound atrocities and genocides.

Last edited by GregHenry; 07-16-2012 at 05:24 AM..
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:36 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,900,367 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
So a prisoner with a cheery outlook who's actually quite fond of the arrangement, the shelter, the abundance of provisions, the predictable arrival of food, the access to health care, the camaraderie with the men, can properly be called "free?"
Sure. If that's what floats his boat. He would be free of all the kinds of challenges that got him into prison, among other things. There are some who actually like it, Greg. I wouldn't but ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
On the day of his release back into a world he found uncomfortable, you would argue that he lost his freedom?
Why would I argue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
This legitimate parsing of your passage is downright terrifying and illustrates the Orwellian horror in collectivism:
I am a scary dude, Greg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHenry View Post
You'd send a man to the gulag and arrogantly think you've done him a favor. This doublespeak permits the commission of unbound atrocities and genocides.
Now you're making things up ... I'd send a man to the gulag for certain crimes if I felt he was threat. Favor? Nope.

Obsessed Libertarian, Greg?
Or just bored with your freedom?
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:39 AM
 
583 posts, read 884,731 times
Reputation: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
He would be free of all the kinds of challenges that got him into prison, among other things.
We don't have agreement on terms. "Free of" does not equal "free." Freedom does not contemplate any particular standard of living.
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