Millennials (Are we doomed)? (Brea, Sonoma: home, neighborhood, purchase)
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Look, this all comes back to the point I am making -- which appears to be missed over and over no matter how many times I say it plainly:
Opportunity is in the eye of the beholder ... what humanity has been doing to arrive where we are today sucks. Yet the Millenials are complaining they can't get a pice of the same rotten meat pie? If you want me to admit there is less opportunity for doing the same stupid things over and over -- well, I have made it clear that I can agree with that ... so? A number of posters here just want to ignore the fact that they are seeking opportunity to live the same failed dreams ... which would only perpetuate the problems: more work, less satisfaction, worse legacies.
It's a failed system you are trying to insert yourselves into, folks. At the same time, this increasingly obvious truth opens new freaking doors. Turn. The. Knob.
But your point here is irrelevant. Barring some cataclysmic event, we're not going to go back to a simpler life you seem to be advocating. Because of this, we, Xer's, Millies etc. are looking at things from a realistic point of view in the world we live in today. Do I agree with you that our society is broken? Yes, you know that. However, human-beings have survived because we persevered and moved forward, not because we gave up. I believe certain parts of our system need to be fixed but to suggest that the only way to fix it is to scrap it, is not only unfair but also short-sighted.
Look, this all comes back to the point I am making -- which appears to be missed over and over no matter how many times I say it plainly:
Opportunity is in the eye of the beholder ... what humanity has been doing to arrive where we are today sucks. Yet the Millenials are complaining they can't get a pice of the same rotten meat pie? If you want me to admit there is less opportunity for doing the same stupid things over and over -- well, I have made it clear that I can agree with that ... so? A number of posters here just want to ignore the fact that they are seeking opportunity to live the same failed dreams ... which would only perpetuate the problems: more work, less satisfaction, worse legacies.
It's a failed system you are trying to insert yourselves into, folks. At the same time, this increasingly obvious truth opens new freaking doors. Turn. The. Knob.
I understand your point; like I said there is truth in both what you and the OP are saying. There are different ways to live, and everyone (no matter the age) wants to keep up with the Joneses in this country.
Here's a video which shows another perspective...I found this guy's way of life to be a thing of beauty (and he reminds me a bit of nullgeo ):
Also, the Dirty Jobs guy was on Bill Maher this past week. He made a good point on how many well-paying blue-collar jobs still go unfulfilled because they are not sexy enough, or those who would work them aren't willing or capable of learning the necessary skills:
Or, you got yours and everyone should go back to hunter-gatherers or to hell with them.
Not at all what I have been saying.
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Originally Posted by Gentoo
But your point here is irrelevant. Barring some cataclysmic event, we're not going to go back to a simpler life you seem to be advocating. Because of this, we, Xer's, Millies etc. are looking at things from a realistic point of view in the world we live in today. Do I agree with you that our society is broken? Yes, you know that. However, human-beings have survived because we persevered and moved forward, not because we gave up. I believe certain parts of our system need to be fixed but to suggest that the only way to fix it is to scrap it, is not only unfair but also short-sighted.
And my points aren't in the slightest irrelevant ... au contraire. Look, this thread was started by a Millenial who seems to be saying -- as I have heard before -- that the Boomers took all the good stuff in a failed system -- and now he / they are upset they don't get to do the same.
what?
We (BB's) screwed everything up ... and now there's no opportunity for them to do the same.
What?
For one thing, none of us BB's picked when we were born ... we just happened to get here before the Millenials. Now, when a person finds themselves in a line at WalMart, should they be angry with the people already standing in line before them who got the sales items before they ran out? Should the people in front give their stuff to the ones behind? You might say "Yes", to some degree ... but allow me to point out that what the first ones in line got isn't worth crap ... it's WalMart ... it's garbage. That's what I'm saying.
There's no lack of opportunity. There's less opportunity to be stupid in the same ways.
Big deal. Meet the challenges of your time ...
and do so with worthy purpose instead of continuing the debacle.
And no, I don't advocate going back to hunting - gathering at all (would be nice though) ... you read and comprehend better than that Gentoo. I haven't advocated going "BACK" to a simpler life ... I am advocating going "FORWARD" to a simpler, and more fulfilling, life, by learning from our failing past.
Also, the Dirty Jobs guy was on Bill Maher this past week. He made a good point on how many well-paying blue-collar jobs still go unfulfilled because they are not sexy enough, or those who would work them aren't willing or capable of learning the necessary skills:
These are good points. However, I have to wonder if a lot of these jobs are not being filled because employers want people with experience already. I'll do damn near any job if adequate training is offered but sadly, I don't see that much anymore.
And my points aren't in the slightest irrelevant ... au contraire. Look, this thread was started by a Millenial who seems to be saying -- as I have heard before -- that the Boomers took all the good stuff in a failed system -- and now he / they are upset they don't get to do the same.
Well, I said your point was irrelevant because you kept mentioning simpler times so, naturally, I thought that was your point.
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For one thing, none of us BB's picked when we were born
Neither did the rest of us.
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we just happened to get here before the Millenials. Now, when a person finds themselves in a line at WalMart, should they be angry with the people already standing in line before them who got the sales items before they ran out? Should the people in front give their stuff to the ones behind? You might say "Yes", to some degree ... but allow me to point out that what the first ones in line got isn't worth crap ... it's WalMart ... it's garbage. That's what I'm saying.
I'm sure you have your reasons for using Wal-Mart as your example. I guess what is considered "crap" or garbage depends on one's perspective. For the two generations that came after you, realizing that we will not have what our parents had at the same age is what's crap.
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Meet the challenges of your time ...
and do so with worthy purpose instead of continuing the debacle.
I agree with this as I stated in my original post. I know I've been hard on your Boomers but one thing I will admit that you guys have an advantage with, is your understanding that you have to work hard to get anywhere. We Xer's and Millies have a sense of entitlement which we displays in ways unique to our generations. This attitude, is a handicap.
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And no, I don't advocate going back to hunting - gathering at all (would be nice though)
Ok seriously?
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you read and comprehend better than that Gentoo.
I have only responded to what you wrote. If that's not what you meant, you're not communicating that very well as the above quoted post indicates.
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I am advocating going "FORWARD" to a simpler, and more fulfilling, life, by learning from our failing past.
Ok, I can appreciate that. However, who gets to determine what simpler? Why is simpler necessarily better?
OK so everyone is in agreement... It is an epic bummer for a Millennial if they want to chase the plastic capitalistic carrot on the end of the stick.
Yes it can be done and is done... But should it be done?. It has nothing to do with the quality of life...
Way I see it:
One of these generations sooner or later is going to need to make some changes. BIG changes,.. Like get up and walk away from the Monopoly game they did not start... Say screw it... I ain't playing by YOUR rules.... Here are OUR rules.. THIS is how the game is going to be played.
I believe ultimately there is less room for margin of error these days, compared to past generations. A kid in the 1960s could...go to work in a local factory or start his/her own business with less risk and competition (local vs global). Compare that to today, where college is more expensive, credit card companies target 18 year olds to fast-track them to a lifetime of debt servitude, and there are more people competing for fewer opportunities in a shrinking workforce.
I agree. I remember when you couldn't get a credit card until you had a full time job, usually right after college. Now they're sending them to high school kids, who add that on to their college debt a few years later.
There are those on this thread that want to go back, to like it used to be.
They want the hunting and gathering age to come back. Where in the metro area, are you going to be able to go out and kill enough game to feed the family. You would have to be eating feral cats and dog, and there would not be enough of them to feed many people.
Just think about 60 years ago, it took 33% of all working people in the U.S. to grow the food people ate. Now with over twice the population, we can grow enough to feed the country and export with only 1.5% of the population involved in farming/ranching. People could not afford to eat today, if it took as big a percent of the people to grow the food today as it did 60 years ago. Labor costs would put food out of the reach of the majority.
Technology has been around as long as man has been. Just today, we have different technology. We have to consider, that experts tell us that in only 10 years when it comes to the jobs people will be performing half of them have not even been invented yet. That is how fast, that technology is changing the world.
I want to give an example of how things change.
In Oregon they have a long established cheese making company. A few years ago (less than 20), they had dozens of big strong men, that would release milk from overhead pipes into big vats. They would add a chemical, and then men would use big wooden paddles to stir the mix. It would turn to big curds over a lot of whey (liquid), they would then cut the curds into blocks, and then manually put the blocks into bags, and haul them to the aging room.
Just a few years ago they shut down a couple of weeks. All you see now is a series of tanks around the room connected by pipes, and then there is one machine. Three people men/women in white lab coats work off of computer screens, and only one man waits at the machine with a clear plastic bag in his hands collecting the blocks of cheese dropping from the machine, and places them on a rolling cart to take to the aging room when it is full. Three people operating computers, and one strong man to catch the blocks is all it takes replacing dozens of strong men while producing much more cheese than before.
The displaced workers were lucky. This cheese company used to send their cheese to the east coast to be packaged for sale. They added on and put in a packaging section, and put the displaced workers to packing cheese which is a lot easier job than they had before. The poor workers in the east, were out of a job however.
This type of thing, is happening all over the nation. Look at Detroit that has just announced they are going bankrupt. Michigan lost a lot of jobs, as they automated the auto manufacturing business. Today they can build more cars, and use less than half the former number of employees. One reason for the auto company bankruptcy, was the unions that were keeping them from modernizing to the extent they needed to do to stay competitive with cars made in other countries. The unions were fighting automation and the reduction of staff. Bankruptcy allowed the changes to be made, and the auto business is coming back, but with only a portion of the workers formerly needed.
The states that are booming, are the right to work states, where it is easier to automate. Some of the other states, are moving to right to work status as a way to survive.
These changes, are hurting the young today, reducing job opportunities, hold down wage increases, etc. It is making it harder, for young people to get a start, especially if they live in California with it's high cost of living.
It costs about 66% more to live in Silicon Valley than Austin Texas, and wages are no where that much different. In other words the young person today, will be many dollars ahead each month going to Texas. Houses as an example, are 66% Cheaper in Austin, which allows a young family to buy a home, that is beyond their dream in the Silicon Valley.
California companies are moving many of their facilities to Austin and other places in the U.S. where they can have as much as a 40% lower cost to do business, which all goes to their bottom line. If they don't do things like this, the stockholders will fire them to increase their dividends. This problem makes it that much harder, for young people in California.
That is why though their grandparents and parents moved to California for the opportunities, the young today are having to bail out to survive.
. One thing the Bommers are right about is that our generations who came after them tend to lack patients.
.....and spelling skills.
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