California 6 states? Plan to split California into 6 states gains traction (Los Angeles: law, budget)

[Woof]

CA has split the management tasks of govt already into county and city sized units.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Henry10

I asked since JFK.

Sorry, misunderstood. let's try that again:


Lyndon B. Johnson - Arizona and New Mexico were added in 1912. Alaska and Hawaii in 1959
(1908–1973)

Richard Nixon - same list as Johnson.
(1913–1994)

Gerald Ford - Same list as previous two
(1913–2006)

Jimmy Carter - Alaska and Hawaii were added in 1959
(born 1924)

Ronald Reagan - Same list as Johson, Nixon and Ford.
(1911–2004)

Bill Clinton - Alaska and Hawaii
(born 1946)

George W. Bush - Alaska and Hawaii
(born 1946)

Barack Obama - So far, none
(born 1961)

[ExeterMedia]

So the last time a state was actually split up was in the 19th century? What state was that?

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by ExeterMedia

So the last time a state was actually split up was in the 19th century? What state was that?

I believe it was West Virginia in 1863. Before that it was Maine in 1820 which split from Massachusetts.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

My first reaction to such ideas is to file them under the "Nuts" folder. In reality, it makes sense at some point. After all, if corporations can be too big to manage, how is it that government can't? At what size does the structure of a state become too inefficient to manage a population of x size? Maybe CA is already there.

Most places the size of, and with the economy the size of CA's are countries. If Ca were a country, it would have the 9th largest economy and be the 34th most populous. There aren't too many other sub-national units around the world that fit that criteria. Perhaps in India and China but there is division in those countries as well. In my own personal opinion, CA as it is in the current USA is too big. Remaining in the union would be better done by splitting it up. Remaining whole, I think it's better off on its own. The latter is very unlikely in the foreseeable future and the former would not be easy to achieve. People keep playing the political game. It isn't the politics. It's the changing times. Texas too will eventually face the same problems as its population grows and it's needs start to grow to those of a nation while still continuing to receive those of a state. It's politics however are very different but it too will have problems in the future. the issue is, we Americans have this belief that our country and it's states are somehow permanent and non changeable despite history proving otherwise. We can't tackle 21st century problems by addressing them in a 20th century way. it's time for everyone on both sides to realize that maybe it's time to think outside the box and consider that which in the past could be ignored but now, no longer should be.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

I believe it was West Virginia in 1863. Before that it was Maine in 1820 which split from Massachusetts.

There have been many attempts since then to split up other states, including California. New York, Arizona, Michigan, and Maryland have all had secessionist movements to split up the states. I would be very surprised if Florida hasn't also had a movement to split up. Secession from states is generally more popular in the US than secession from the nation.

[ExeterMedia]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

I believe it was West Virginia in 1863. Before that it was Maine in 1820 which split from Massachusetts.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

[ExeterMedia]

Originally Posted by Woof

CA has split the management tasks of govt already into county and city sized units.

Exactly. I'm not sure how this 6-state plan will really help accomplish what it sets out to do. Counties are already regional areas with their own politics and culture. OC is different from Contra Costa which is different from Kings, and definitely different than Monterrey.

I would be more willing to listen to this plan if it didn't seem so self-serving.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by majoun

There have been many attempts since then to split up other states, including California. New York, Arizona, Michigan, and Maryland have all had secessionist movements to split up the states. I would be very surprised if Florida hasn't also had a movement to split up. Secession from states is generally more popular in the US than secession from the nation.

Secession on smaller levels is always more popular because it generally has a better chance at success among other reasons. No state has successfully left the union. A few states have successfully left other states. Counties have been partitioned quite a few times and cities have had the most success at secession. For example, West Covina seceded from Covina, CA. Others similar attempts exist in Los Angeles with the San Fernando Valley having a vote to secede from LA blocked and San Diego has an attempt from La Jolla to secede from San Diego.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Secession on smaller levels is always more popular because it generally has a better chance at success among other reasons. No state has successfully left the union. A few states have successfully left other states. Counties have been partitioned quite a few times and cities have had the most success at secession. For example, West Covina seceded from Covina, CA. Others similar attempts exist in Los Angeles with the San Fernando Valley having a vote to secede from LA blocked and San Diego has an attempt from La Jolla to secede from San Diego.

Secession from the US is constitutionally questionable (unilateral secession is forbidden) and the barriers to do so are practically insurmountable. Secession from a state is constitutionally permissable and has been done before, even if it hasn't been done for awhile. While California has not had any new counties created in over a century, there were some counties which were partitioned in the 19th and early 20th centuries, e.g. Orange County seceding from Los Angeles County and Riverside and Imperial Counties seceding from San Diego County.