the "yes means yes" law (lawyers, dangerous)

[Bulldogdad]

Affirmative consent must be ongoing throughout a sexual activity

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

Thank you so much for cutting and pasting the actual law chuckman. I love this law!

It's actually not complex at all and it's amazingly well-written. At first, it's intimidating just because it's so long, but the actual reading of this law is easy to understand.

Basically, it says that

1) there must be affirmative assent, and clarifies what that means

2) and I LOVE this - the decision regarding guilt of the accused must be based on a preponderance of the evidence

This is really important for all of you who are saying a girl/boy can just claim rape and the accused is found guilty. Not so. What this means, is that the court looks at ALL of the available evidence, and makes a decision based on what most likely happened.

3) It says the school must create a protocol for how they handle the complaints, including finding and interviewing witnesses, determining if alcohol/drugs were involved, etc.

4) It says that someone who wants to report a rape doesn't have to fear getting in trouble for being where he/she was when the alleged rape occurred.

This is also really important. The accuser can't get in trouble for breaking a school rule for a drinking party or whatever, that is against the rules and could result in some type of disciplinary action. UNLESS it involves cheating or a few other things mentioned. So, the accuser can feel safe to report the crime.

5) It says the school must do it's best to make sure the students know this policy, including putting the policy in their orientation for new students

6) It says they must coordinate with existing resources, like rape crisis organizations, etc.

7) It says they must inform the accuser of available resources

8) It says they must make sure their security personnel is trained on how to handle these reports

9) It says their policy must be based on the federal Higher Education Act of 1965. Yep, 1965.

I also LOVE that this new law does not include anything that should really have much of an impact on the financial resources of the school. Basically, as far as how it impacts existing personnel and resources, it includes creating a SOP for dealing with rape reports, some type of education/information program to inform the students of the policy, and including this info in new student orientation, and educating their existing security personnel.

I love this law.

If you love this law than you must love ruining young guys lives.

[Iaskwhy]

Love Contract - Video Clip | Comedy Central

This used to be a joke, but now it is reality.

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

If you love this law than you must love ruining young guys lives.

Yep, I'm all for someone taking advantage of a drunk man and him having no recourse.

This law covers men and women equally.

[bigdumbgod]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

If you love this law than you must love ruining young guys lives.

Young guys who are rapists? Yes, please ruin their friggin' useless lives.

[JRichards1996]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

Let's look at this logically from the perspective of someone who actually bothers to contact the authorities to report that they were raped.

How about from the perspective of somebody falsely accused of rape? Or somebody who was also drunk and had sex with a drunk person, and waking up the next day to the police at his or her door arresting him or her because the other drunk party had buyer's remorse and decided to make it rape?

Now, who does this? Really?

You'd be surprised. False accusations of rape are commoner than you might think. Regardless, it doesn't matter "who" would do it because either way, the law is intrinsically flawed and thus should be dismissed since that potential is there for it to be abused. I'm sure that if we passed a patriarchal "all wives are the property of their husbands" law that many men would not abuse their power but would still be loving husbands, but ultimately such a law opens up the potential for abuse and is intrinsically wrong and should rightfully be opposed.

What kind of person wakes up and says, "Oh, my God, I think I was raped," or, "Oh, my God, I was definitely raped," who wasn't really raped, and then goes through everything that would be involved in reporting that they'd been raped?

Again, doesn't matter.

Do you really think any hungover college student who had sex the night before is just going to wake up and say, wow, I obviously had sex, I must have been raped, and will instantly call the authorities, even if it is embarrassing and will be a giant pain in the rear (so to speak) that will hugely affect my life with embarrassing interviews and paperwork and reports, and upset my parents, etc., etc.

Again, doesn't matter; what matters is that this law makes it so that that could happen and is thus intrinsically flawed.

Because that's what it sounds like the opponents to this law are saying. That it is some lark for entertainment or attention, that people who report rape do it for.

Some people do, but again, it doesn't matter what people do. What matters is that the law is intrinsically broken and potentially very bad.

I don't think so. I think there is an enormous number of unreported rapes.

Also of false rapes.

Why would someone assume the person reporting the rape is lying? That they would be willing to go through the embarrassment, hassle, parental and friends/family upset - why?

Because they can lie and the unsubstantiated testimony of a single party unbacked by physical evidence and/or a third party witness is insufficient to convict a person of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. If we are going to convict people based on hearsay alone, then we've really gone off the deep end.

This is what bothers me the most about the opposing arguments here. That the belief still prevails that if a woman gets raped she "asked for it," and if she reports it, "she's lying."

Some women do get raped; some women fake it and lie. Regardless, this law is wrong on the many accounts we all listed here. And I don't know if women necessarily "ask for rape"--it seems useless to blame the victim--but they do have the volitional freedom to make their own choices, including choices that would increase or decrease their odds of getting raped. While we always need to prosecute the offender above all, we still do need to teach women to be responsible and make good choices. It's not about "victim blaming" or "she asked for it" but about teaching adults to be adults whose decisions can have very real consequences. Through removing this personal responsibility--which seems to be what this law as well as many 3rd wave feminists are doing--we are creating a society of victims who are taught to rely on the goodness of others opposed to making their own decisions and looking out for themselves which is what every individual--especially adults--need to do, since we can never fully rely on others. Feminism is going backwards; whereas the 1st and 2nd Wave movements rightfully fought to gain women equal rights and to break the stereotypes that they are inferior, 3rd Wave feminists are refusing to step up to the responsibility that comes along with these hard-earned rights by teaching women to be victims and children.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by bigdumbgod

Young guys who are rapists? Yes, please ruin their friggin' useless lives.

It isn't rape if consent is implicit.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

Yep, I'm all for someone taking advantage of a drunk man and him having no recourse.

This law covers men and women equally.

You have to be incredibly naive to think this law covers men and women equally.

[ambient]

I guess I just don't get it.

Can someone explain to me again how the monitoring and enforcement of two immature, horny, and possibly inebriated kids saying "yes" before sex will actually work?

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by ambient

I guess I just don't get it.

Can someone explain to me again how the monitoring and enforcement of two immature, horny, and possibly inebriated kids saying "yes" before sex will actually work?

They automatically take the girls side. That's how it will work.