Public Employee Unions want to change Prop. 13 so busness property tax goes up & up more every year. (Sacramento: car insurance, per square foot)

[USDefault]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I'm in a similar situation as Mom's new neighbors... I pay 12k property tax in a neighborhood with many elderly neighbors paying 2 to 3k property tax...

I'm OK with that is they paid their dues and now it is my turn... and I fully intend to be one of the old timers one day with the lower taxes...

No, these oldies never paid their dues. They are collecting Social Security and Medicare dollars far in excess what they paid into the system. And current seniors and boomers are precisely why both programs are underfunded and in serious trouble. They are sucking out benefits far, far higher than what they paid in.

Concerning the California property taxes they pay, nope, here too they also are not paying their dues. California is running a $1+ trillion deficit, when you include unfunded pension liabilities. These old people are not paying enough in property taxes to fund California's current obligations plus currently occurring future obligations. That is why California is raising all kinds of taxes and fees (gas, vehicle, income, nicotine, soda, bonds) to pay current obligations. These old people vote in spendthrift politicians who are spending hundreds of billions of dollars now -- but which will have to be paid in the future by today's young and their unborn. This is the math. These are the hard facts. And the math simply cannot be disputed.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Arizona property taxes are low, but I really doubt if they are 1/4 of what they are in California...

I have the numbers to prove it on my tax return Schedule E forms (rentals). The value of the properties I own in AZ are together approximately twice the value of my residence in CA. Yet I pay half the dollar amount of my CA property taxes for AZ property taxes multiple properties.

That sounds like 1/4 to me but maybe I did the math wrong. You have all the numbers I'm willing to share since of course I'm not going to post my tax return figures on a forum. Analyze what I said above and see if you agree with me. Also my 1/4 is not an exact number but the true number is in the vicinity of 1/4.

If nothing else it's a certainty that AZ property taxes are a hell of a lot lower than CA property taxes.

Note also that the exact same house (if you could find one) in AZ costs about half of that house in CA.

I'm sorry that my privacy concerns prevent me from posting a list of AZ property values and taxes paid, and my one CA residence value and taxes paid for it. It would be eye opening but I'm sure everybody understands that is far too much of a privacy breach for me to share the exact numbers.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

I lived in Nevada for 14 years and moved back to California when my husband retired because it is cheaper than Nevada, but thanks very much for telling me I'm stupid, personal attacks are so 'special'

I can't understand how you found living in CA cheaper than NV unless perhaps you are in a very inexpensive area in CA.

However I suggest you are better off not responding to insults whether perceived or actually intended. Respond to drama queens or trolls and you just encourage them. And I am not directing my comment towards the member who you seem to have issues with. My comment here is intended to be just a general comment not aimed at any specific member. -- I know this through long time dealing with people who seem to want to get some drama going with me. Trust me, you'll feel better by just moving on to the next post. Just ignore negative comments and you'll be much happier on the forum.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by USDefault

No, these oldies never paid their dues. They are collecting Social Security and Medicare dollars far in excess what they paid into the system.

You just don't fully understand the system. Yes some people (BTW your term "oldies" is insulting) collect more than they paid into the system, but many if not most people don't live long enough to collect Social Security and their contributions help pay for the lucky ones who live longer and reach a payout that exceeds their pay in. For example the many people who die from diseases, car accidents, murder--and do it before they reach payout age.

However the system does need some adjustments: (1) continue increasing the beginning eligibility age gradually to account for people living longer and many of them having longer careers, or at least the chance for longer careers. And (2) means testing: in other words your SS benefits are reduced as your other retirement income increases. Just an example, a retiree who makes $150K/year may make too much to collect any SS benefits.

I see both as necessary restructuring to keep Social Security solvent. Also, I have yet to see any viable alternative other than tweaking the current system. If somebody is smart enough to figure out a better retirement system then it should be phased in, perhaps gradually over a period of 50 years or something, so as to not cut off people caught in mid-transition. Note that if you started cutting over today most of the current recipients and contributors would be dead and gone 50 years from now. Those in middle ages would collect from both systems, to a degree proportional to the amount of contributions paid into each system (if a different system could be devised).

I just can't see any viable alternative to the current SS system and if you can you are smarter than me. At least one thing, the boomers are dying off and as they die they are unloading the system. There is another problem coming down the pike: the boomlets, children of boomers who can be thought of as an echo of the bigger boomer bump.

It would help a lot if US had a more stable population. As I'm sure everybody knows, the boomer generation was basically blow-back from WW II when people had to defer having families while the men (and some women) were off to war. Be glad we won or otherwise we'd be speaking German or Japanese!

[Electrician4you]

Originally Posted by USDefault

No, these oldies never paid their dues. They are collecting Social Security and Medicare dollars far in excess what they paid into the system. And current seniors and boomers are precisely why both programs are underfunded and in serious trouble. They are sucking out benefits far, far higher than what they paid in.

Concerning the California property taxes they pay, nope, here too they also are not paying their dues. California is running a $1+ trillion deficit, when you include unfunded pension liabilities. These old people are not paying enough in property taxes to fund California's current obligations plus currently occurring future obligations. That is why California is raising all kinds of taxes and fees (gas, vehicle, income, nicotine, soda, bonds) to pay current obligations. These old people vote in spendthrift politicians who are spending hundreds of billions of dollars now -- but which will have to be paid in the future by today's young and their unborn. This is the math. These are the hard facts. And the math simply cannot be disputed.

And in 40 years someone will spout the same crap you're spouting NOW about YOU. I guarantee you that in 40 years you'll have a different outlook. You're just pissed because you gotta pay more than some guy who lived here for 40 years. I guarantee you there aren't many houses that haven't been sold and we're reassessed. Damn dude we ALL are paying. The gas taxes and fees etc were all paying. I just bought a house, but I'm not whining about paying the property taxes on it. I knew going in what I would have to do. All I'm reading in your post is I'm a whiny baby. Stop crying.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

I have the numbers to prove it on my tax return Schedule E forms (rentals). The value of the properties I own in AZ are together approximately twice the value of my residence in CA. Yet I pay half the dollar amount of my CA property taxes for AZ property taxes multiple properties.
That sounds like 1/4 to me but maybe I did the math wrong. You have all the numbers I'm willing to share since of course I'm not going to post my tax return figures on a forum. Analyze what I said above and see if you agree with me. Also my 1/4 is not an exact number but the true number is in the vicinity of 1/4.
If nothing else it's a certainty that AZ property taxes are a hell of a lot lower than CA property taxes.
Note also that the exact same house (if you could find one) in AZ costs about half of that house in CA.
I'm sorry that my privacy concerns prevent me from posting a list of AZ property values and taxes paid, and my one CA residence value and taxes paid for it. It would be eye opening but I'm sure everybody understands that is far too much of a privacy breach for me to share the exact numbers.

What I was asking, and I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear is this: If you and I both have houses in Phoenix that are worth the same amount and we are paying roughly the same property tax today, if our home values double what will each of us be paying in property tax ten years from now? It's not a trick question, I simply can't find the answer.

PS you can use the link I gave you, enter a home value and a zip code and get the property tax for any house in the US, it will not jeopardize your privacy to use that tool, you don't enter personal information and you can enter any random zipcode you want. And there is a reason why homes in Arizona are worth 1/2 of an equivalent home in some areas of California but I think you already know that.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Lovehound

I can't understand how you found living in CA cheaper than NV unless perhaps you are in a very inexpensive area in CA.

However I suggest you are better off not responding to insults whether perceived or actually intended. Respond to drama queens or trolls and you just encourage them. And I am not directing my comment towards the member who you seem to have issues with. My comment here is intended to be just a general comment not aimed at any specific member. -- I know this through long time dealing with people who seem to want to get some drama going with me. Trust me, you'll feel better by just moving on to the next post. Just ignore negative comments and you'll be much happier on the forum.

Thanks for the advice but I think I'm probably old enough to decide which comments to respond to and I don't want drama either but that doesn't mean that I will avoid responding to a post in order to avoid it.

As far as it being cheaper to live in California than Nevada, it's not hard to calculate.

• We don't pay state income tax so Nevada not having income tax is of no benefit to us
• Gas is about 30-40 cents a gallon cheaper here than in Reno
• Car insurance is cheaper
• Vehicle registration is almost a wash except in Nevada the car value portion of the registration decreases more slowly than in California, so my 2011 SUV cost $80 less when we first registered it in California in 2014
• Property tax is cheaper in California and is basically fixed due to prop 13
• sales tax is about the same
• housing prices almost exactly the same (Reno vs Sacramento)
• water bill $100 month Reno vs $60 Sacramento
• Gas and Electricity $250-$400 in Reno, $80-$100 here.

[Lovehound]

I have noticed that homeowners insurance is more expensive in AZ than in CA. FWIW.

You may not have heard yet but CA auto registration costs are increasing this year by a significant amount.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Electrician4you

I guarantee you that in 40 years you'll have a different outlook. You're just pissed because you gotta pay more than some guy who lived here for 40 years. I guarantee you there aren't many houses that haven't been sold and reassessed. Damn dude we ALL are paying. All I'm reading in your post is I'm a whiny baby. Stop crying.

Well said.

[Lovehound]

I'll add to that, you'll see it different when you are 40 years older! I'll bet then you young people won't be so annoyed at "older" people when you become one.

There are only two choices in this life. Either you get older or you get dead. For those of you who are young, remember to treat older people nicely because one day if you are lucky you will become one too.

If you create a situation where older people are forced out of their homes like it was before Prop 13, then don't come crying when you too are forced out of your home you owned many years because you can't afford the property taxes.

It's funny how true that "death and taxes" quote still applies, the only two things you can't avoid.