Do You Support Calexit Knowing that It's Sponsored by Russia? (house insurance, mortgages)

[KerrTown]

Isn't the Boston Tea Party considered a terrorist act by today's standards? The Tea Party was the 18th-century version of 9/11. The Patriots carried that attack out and so the Independence Movement is duly considered a terrorist movement. Why does America celebrate a terrorist attack that founded the country?

That is the logic that the OP uses when CalExit is sponsored by Russia!

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by KerrTown

Isn't the Boston Tea Party considered a terrorist act by today's standards? The Tea Party was the 18th-century version of 9/11. The Patriots carried that attack out and so the Independence Movement is duly considered a terrorist movement. Why does America celebrate a terrorist attack that founded the country?

That is the logic that the OP uses when CalExit is sponsored by Russia!

UH, throwing cargo off ships is the same as crashing planes into two buildings and killing a LOT of people?

However it is interesting that the majority of colonists did not support the revolution and the Rebel Armies lost every battle until they had foreign help.

That won't help the minority in CA that want CALExit as they won't fight, too busy shopping, lying in the Sun at the beach, reading the Biased Main Stream Media reports, etc.

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Who took any of those movements seriously?

California has absolutely no power to negotiate a secession. None.

5,000 National Guardsmen could effectively lock down California, and allow the Federal government to take over.

Who took them seriously? Millions of people of both sides of the respecricve issues ... and voted for or against. The respective controlling governments responded to the referendums procedurally. In Scotland and Canada, winning votes would have resulted in separation through a negotiated process. In Catalonia the win to separate was at first honored for a position of autonomy but later ruled invalid. You don't consider those things 'seriously'? Seriously?

California has more to bring to negotiated process than any previous international parallel. By far. Name one countey that acheived its independence while having the level of population and economy and infrastructe that California has.

Don't know why you persist in calling up infantile scenarios of armed resistance. Very few nations have won independence that way and none that were developed countries in modern times. Yet dozens and dozens of nations have acheived independence in the last century through peaceful negotiations. Furthermore no one involved in the movement is proposing armed rebellion. So why do you keep posting these silly scenarios?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by StanleysOwl

Who took them seriously? Millions of people of both sides of the respecricve issues ... and voted for or against. The respective controlling governments responded to the referendums procedurally. In Scotland and Canada, winning votes would have resulted in separation through a negotiated process. In Catalonia the win to separate was at first honored for a position of autonomy but later ruled invalid. You don't consider those things 'seriously'? Seriously?

California has more to bring to negotiated process than any previous international parallel. By far. Name one countey that acheived its independence while having the level of population and economy and infrastructe that California has.

Don't know why you persist in calling up infantile scenarios of armed resistance. Very few nations have won independence that way and none that were developed countries in modern times. Yet dozens and dozens of nations have acheived independence in the last century through peaceful negotiations. Furthermore no one involved in the movement is proposing armed rebellion. So why do you keep posting these silly scenarios?

Well according to the Law it takes a majority of those in Congress and then a majority of the States to agree. It isn't just; "Here is our proposal, lets negotiate our leaving the Union".

If you think it worth while, then start a group that contacts every congress person and motivate them to vote for it. You know, do it the way that was agreed on and established by the Country, and accepted when CA became a State.

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Well according to the Law it takes a majority of those in Congress and then a majority of the States to agree. It isn't just; "Here is our proposal, lets negotiate our leaving the Union".

If you think it worth while, then start a group that contacts every congress person and motivate them to vote for it. You know, do it the way that was agreed on and established by the Country, and accepted when CA became a State.

What are you responding to? Nothing you seem to be saying here relates to anything in the post you quoted.

There is a group started. There are at least two. And they are proceeding with the prescribed protocols for referendums being legally presented to state and federal congresses.

The issues of strentgh of negotiation come when working out separation relationships and treaties, etc.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by StanleysOwl

Who took them seriously? Millions of people of both sides of the respecricve issues ... and voted for or against. The respective controlling governments responded to the referendums procedurally. In Scotland and Canada, winning votes would have resulted in separation through a negotiated process. In Catalonia the win to separate was at first honored for a position of autonomy but later ruled invalid. You don't consider those things 'seriously'? Seriously?

Millions of people took those movements seriously? Millions of stupid people who have no idea of how real independence is gained which is why they all failed.

Please name all the successful secession movements that took place without the use or threat of force. You claimed "dozens upon dozens", I'm claiming bull****.

Also I never said anyone involved is proposing armed rebellion, in fact I've always said it would be the exact opposite for this movement ("procedural"), which is why it would fail.

You're actually very wrong about how successful independence movements work. Armed resistance and the "threat" of armed resistance has birth numerous free nations, and kept many nations free including the very one you live in.

[StanleysOwl]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Millions of people took those movements seriously? Millions of stupid people who have no idea of how real independence is gained which is why they all failed.

Please name all the successful secession movements that took place without the use or threat of force. You claimed "dozens upon dozens", I'm claiming bull****.

Also I never said anyone involved is proposing armed rebellion, in fact I've always said it would be the exact opposite for this movement ("procedural"), which is why it would fail.

You're actually very wrong about how successful independence movements work. Armed resistance and the "threat" of armed resistance has birth numerous free nations, and kept many nations free including the very one you live in.

Hard to understand why you would write any of this.

Here's a list of the world's countries by continent with dates of indepence (from mother countries). Territories and colonies, etc. look it over. Find which, as specified in previous post, are developed nations separated in modern day - say the last 100 years. See how many you can identify as securing independence through armed rebellion. Or even threat of such.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...e_of_formation

Our US isn't remaining free by virtue of any armed threats. Are you suggesting that a ragtag band of redneck rightwing Joe Sixpacks circling up in Wilbur's back yard with their Mattel walkie talkies and basement modified AR's have Washington and Wall Street cowed? No supply lines and inventory, no distribution systems for supplies, no helicopter gunships let alone light attack aircraft, no armored calvery, no military training or heirarchy, no high tech communications systems networks, no economics for cohesive longterm backing, no cohesive leadership or allegiances of common culture and cause, etc. ... and they've got the real political and military and economic movers and shakers operating as they do in 'check'? Shaking in their boots over the Second Amendment Army?

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by StanleysOwl

What are you responding to? Nothing you seem to be saying here relates to anything in the post you quoted.

There is a group started. There are at least two. And they are proceeding with the prescribed protocols for referendums being legally presented to state and federal congresses.

The issues of strentgh of negotiation come when working out separation relationships and treaties, etc.

This is true, but the likelihood of such actions even gaining enough votes to get a "hearing" as it were, is about nil. The negotiations would only come about if the vast majority of the Country agreed.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by StanleysOwl

Hard to understand why you would write any of this.

Here's a list of the world's countries by continent with dates of indepence (from mother countries). Territories and colonies, etc. look it over. Find which, as specified in previous post, are developed nations separated in modern day - say the last 100 years. See how many you can identify as securing independence through armed rebellion. Or even threat of such.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...e_of_formation

Our US isn't remaining free by virtue of any armed threats. Are you suggesting that a ragtag band of redneck rightwing Joe Sixpacks circling up in Wilbur's back yard with their Mattel walkie talkies and basement modified AR's have Washington and Wall Street cowed? No supply lines and inventory, no distribution systems for supplies, no helicopter gunships let alone light attack aircraft, no armored calvery, no military training or heirarchy, no high tech communications systems networks, no economics for cohesive longterm backing, no cohesive leadership or allegiances of common culture and cause, etc. ... and they've got the real political and military and economic movers and shakers operating as they do in 'check'? Shaking in their boots over the Second Amendment Army?

That list does little good for leaving. The vast majority in the last 100 years were territories ruled by a foreign Country and usually of a different ethnicity/race/religion as well. Most were part of an effort by other Nations and generally through the UN, to give them National status. A couple by armed rebellion, like Cuba, so that should be of no value.

I am not sure why your slurs about rightwing rednicks were included because the ones talking about it are left wing ... well less than intelligent all things considered. On the other hand if enough infantile individuals that use such slurs are in CA, the US would be much better off with them out of the Country. I hope others in favor of CALexit agree that such an attitude is not what any Country needs.

[TheseGoTo11]

Stanley's Owl's arguments against America sound just like they've been spoon fed from Putin. Sad!