California determined to save Obamacare program. Proposals may include a state mandate in California requiring... (Oakland: brokers, theater)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

And why should the free market apply to health care? It doesn't. So no, it's not different than "any other day."

... same reason free marketing doesn't apply to police, fire, and national security ... and why utilities are licensed and regulated differently.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Highest-paid health insurance CEO earned $22M in 2016: https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/pay...ut-at-22m-2016

That article is an example of the worst kind of fake news designed to influence weak minds and people who never learned to read SEC filings.

Michael F. Neidorff, the 74 year old Chairman, President & CEO, has been CEO for over 20 years. His salary for 2016 was $1.5 Million for running a successful business employing over 34,000 people with annual revenues of over $40 Billion, generating a profit of $562 Million applicable to its common shareholders including CALPERS, CALSTRS, and other public sector pension funds.

So no, he wasn't paid $22M for running the company in 2016.

In addition to his salary of $1.5 Million, he was received another ~$625k of incentive compensation and executive benefits.

For long-term compensation, Neidorff had received long-term stock options and restricted stock awards to align his interests with those of CALPERS, CALSTRS and Centene's other major owners, in the long-term health of the company. These types of grants typically occur every year - and he's accumulated them for decades. When he was contractually and more importantly legally allowed to exercise and/or sell long-term incentives, he did so. That is where the rest of his compensation came from -- not running the company for 2016 but for guiding the corporation for decades.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Let's say, instead, that corporations, let alone shareholders, shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Corporations are the greatest force for good that has been invented by Mankind.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

There's an obvious reason for that, and it's the same reason that there's no 100% safe and effective over the counter birth control method available without a prescription. The FDA believes that a medical professional needs to examine the patient before the patient can be prescribed that particular drug.

In the real world, almost all Cialis prescriptions are "oh by the way" prescriptions. The patient does not make an appointment to see the doctor for boner meds. He is in the doctor's office for something else altogether such as the flu or an ear ache or a broken wrist, and as the doctor is leaving the examination room to get to his next patient, the doctor hears somewhat sheepishly "Oh, by the way, can I get a prescription for Cialis?"

There is no patient examination. The appointment for the ear ache is over. The doctor writes the RX. In the best of cases, the doctor asks the patient "are you taking any heart medication?" but that is unusual.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

Corporations are the greatest force for good that has been invented by Mankind.

It is not possible to disagree more.

Corporate capitalism is one of the major forces behind the type of technological innovation that has brought the world to over 7 billion humans from a barely planetary sustainable level of well under 1 billion. The 6 + billion excess include a majority of people living quite miserably indeed.

First along came agriculture to bring population advance out of the hunter-gatherer natural design paradigm. Then bronze age tools. Then mechanization and the beginnings of labor-saving devices.

And then along came the chemists of the 19th and early 20th centuries: Justus von Leibig, John Bennet Laws, Jean Baptiste Boussingault, Carl Boss and Fritz Haber, and Earling Johnson to fiddle with nitrogenization and stabilizing ammonia into the mix for fertilizers that have over the past century allowed a supernova explosion of population to be fed ... but not just fed ... but exploited with toxic processed food conditioning foisted on the miserable masses by the new corporate ag conglomerates and manufacturers.

This wondrous new mass of consumers thus creating the practically unlimited market for every kind of new techno-wonder products from toasters to automobiles to iPhones ... none of which were in the slightest required to bring the great works of civilization and arts etc up to the 20th century.

Corporate capitalism is a pariah on mankind. It is a Ponzi scheme of scorched earth proportions that is ultimately destroying the species that spawned it.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

That article is an example of the worst kind of fake news designed to influence weak minds

Really? Look up the profiles of the people that produce this publication. They would probably disagree with you.

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/about-us

And what about all the other links on all the other threads on this topic? (No, I'm not going to do a search for them now.) No, they can't all be "fake news" simply because someone disagrees with the fact that the incomes of health insurance CEOs are astronomical.

[Ultrarunner]

I'm a nobody when it comes to what people are compensated...

What does strike me as odd is the millions paid to athletes, coaches and even coaches at higher institutions of learning... then there are the media giants, actors, etc.

I can further reduce to the pensions my city pays retired individuals... some of whom I personally know... with 5 million retirement packages from being an Oakland police officer.

When an athlete signs a mutli-million dollar contract the populace is in awe and mostly says... good for that person...

When a CEO signs a mulitmillion compensation contract the media that praises the athlete vilifies the CEO...

My comment is about how differently both are perceived...

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I'm a nobody when it comes to what people are compensated...

What does strike me as odd is the millions paid to athletes, coaches and even coaches at higher institutions of learning... then there are the media giants, actors, etc.

I can further reduce to the pensions my city pays retired individuals... some of whom I personally know... with 5 million retirement packages from being an Oakland police officer.

When an athlete signs a mutli-million dollar contract the populace is in awe and mostly says... good for that person...

When a CEO signs a mulitmillion compensation contract the media that praises the athlete vilifies the CEO...

My comment is about how differently both are perceived...

I agree. And they all should be vilified. Every last one. Greed: #2 on the all time list of cardinal sins ... second only to pride.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

In the real world, almost all Cialis prescriptions are "oh by the way" prescriptions. The patient does not make an appointment to see the doctor for boner meds. He is in the doctor's office for something else altogether such as the flu or an ear ache or a broken wrist, and as the doctor is leaving the examination room to get to his next patient, the doctor hears somewhat sheepishly "Oh, by the way, can I get a prescription for Cialis?"

There is no patient examination. The appointment for the ear ache is over. The doctor writes the RX. In the best of cases, the doctor asks the patient "are you taking any heart medication?" but that is unusual.

Hmmm....sounds as if most physicians prefer to give the patient a physical before prescribing ED meds.

https://www.emedicinehealth.com/diag...r_doctor_visit

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...t/drc-20355782

It is estimated that only a third of men with erectile dysfunction seek treatment. This is what happens if you do. https://www.newstatesman.com/health/...t-get-erection

[citizensadvocate]

One thing I just don't understand is why don't we have a program that subsidizes "public hospitals" for all residents. This is a much better form of Universal Health Care that is actually used by quite a number of countries, and unlike single payer universal health services this allows all residents a choice whether to wait in line at a public hospital for subsidized services or pay extra for use of private services.

Though it appears big insurance companies have control over politicians to prevent such a thing from happening. They won by having the long arm of the government force most people to subsidize them by paying for their overpriced policies or paying a tax penalty and getting nothing in return. The politicians are oblivious to the fact that those people paying the tax penalties, which I heard people say that's still considerably cheaper than buying the overpriced insurance policies including ones under Obamacare for often a mediocre policy that barely helps when needed, are still uninsured.

Interestingly the so called public hospitals in the US can be just as expensive or even more expensive than a private hospital particularly ones like Kaiser Permanente based on what I was told when I toured one as part of a medical class program. Also an ambulance bill for emergency transport in a Fire department ambulance may be more expensive than in a private ambulance.