Coronavirus (air quality, plumbers, replacement)

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

It’s not about semantics ... nor is it “irrelevant.” It’s about conflating things nonsensically. The only way salons and barbershops are methodically cleaned more than any number of other businesses is found in the care taken with the styling instruments / equipment that physically contacts changing clients from one appointment to the next: scissors, razors, combs, styling attachments, et al, which are stored in disinfectants, etc. Restaurant kitchens are arguably as clean. Doctor and dental offices are far cleaner.

I had a very close friend who was a barber with his own shop ... I helped him remodel at one point. He had been a cook in the Army where cleanliness was strictly enforced, and was a personally fastidious man. He kept a nice clean barbershop for sure. But he didn’t wipe down all surfaces with disinfectants after each cut ... the chair arms, waiting benches / chairs ... cutting chair ... doorknobs ... magazines ... ad nauseum. He swept the floor of hair and kept his cutting tools sanitized. He didn’t wear a mask.

The air in the shops is not sanitized. And that is the primary vector by far and away most dangerous in this outbreak. It is absolutely the controlling issue in categorization. Trying to set this hair industry apart from others based on stylists keeping their combs and scissors in disinfectant jars is ... well, pure bs.

Yes primary but not the only important vector. Not sure why you keep trying to downplay or deny that. So many things are restricted or closed because of they are high touch surfaces (playgrounds, self-serve soda fountains etc..). So it's clearly an important factor and one that matters.

[Mike930]

Sorry, but hurricanes based on “gematria” is tinfoil hat territory.

That’s zero credibility.

[wac_432]

Originally Posted by sav858

Yes primary but not the only important vector. Not sure why you keep trying to downplay or deny that. So many things are restricted or closed because of they are high touch surfaces (playgrounds, self-serve soda fountains etc..). So it's clearly an important factor and one that matters.

You're putting the cart in front of the horse.

The surface-contact-based closures are not based on rigorous science. They are simply momentum-based closures. Back in March, everything closed out of an abundance of caution, because that is our knee-jerk defense against viruses. Wash hands, cover your sneeze. Now that we know fomites are not the primary vector, these residual closures are simply low-hanging fruit.

It's a logical fallacy to say that because soda fountains are closed, we can open hair salons. But since when has logic governed our response to this pandemic?

[goodheathen]

Originally Posted by sav858

Yes primary but not the only important vector. Not sure why you keep trying to downplay or deny that. So many things are restricted or closed because of they are high touch surfaces (playgrounds, self-serve soda fountains etc..). So it's clearly an important factor and one that matters.

Yeah. You get it. He doesn't and keeps trotting out a story of an old-school barber, as if they're all like that. Furthermore, unlike most commercial interiors, it's very easy to minimize customer contact with surfaces in barber shops and salons. Unlike for example restaurants.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by wac_432

You're putting the cart in front of the horse.

The surface-contact-based closures are not based on rigorous science. They are simply momentum-based closures. Back in March, everything closed out of an abundance of caution, because that is our knee-jerk defense against viruses. Wash hands, cover your sneeze. Now that we know fomites are not the primary vector, these residual closures are simply low-hanging fruit.

It's a logical fallacy to say that because soda fountains are closed, we can open hair salons. But since when has logic governed our response to this pandemic?

Yes it was thought to spread on surfaces more so at the beginning . And yes now we know it doesn't stay on surfaces as long as we thought but it still does nonetheless which is why there are all these additional cleaning/disinfecting recommendations/regulations still in place.

[citizensadvocate]

Originally Posted by wac_432

You're putting the cart in front of the horse.

The surface-contact-based closures are not based on rigorous science. They are simply momentum-based closures. Back in March, everything closed out of an abundance of caution, because that is our knee-jerk defense against viruses. Wash hands, cover your sneeze. Now that we know fomites are not the primary vector, these residual closures are simply low-hanging fruit.

It's a logical fallacy to say that because soda fountains are closed, we can open hair salons. But since when has logic governed our response to this pandemic?

Also they sternly told people not to wear masks in March - early April which they completely reversed course a month or two later.

They even tried to close mother nature which doesn't belong to anyone thus overstepping their power.

What I really get ticked off is I remember they banned reusable bags in March and April in many health districts and store chains yet in June they reversed course saying contact is unlikely to spread it. I believe this is only to appease the eco groups as they outcried that the fear on contact points is generating too much single use waste reversing their years of efforts. They were also mad at the ban on reusable bags which they fought hard to get it reversed. It also gave the green light for jurisdictions and stores to restart enforcing bag fees again over the summer despite rising cases. Even though back in March most stores and some state and local governments planned to waive the fees and/or banning used containers until the pandemic is over regardless of the status of state or local bag ordinances around the country. However there is discrepancy as bagging clerks are still not allowed to touch reusable bags (meaning that if you want bagging service you have to pay for each bag they bag), I mean if contact is a non issue why this rule is there along with other absurd rules about soda fountains, playgrounds, lost and founds, acceptance of cash, etc? Lots of hard to understand discrepancy on their actions. Thus I believe its all based on control and not logic.

[joosoon]

Originally Posted by sav858

So many things are restricted or closed because of they are high touch surfaces (playgrounds, self-serve soda fountains etc..). So it's clearly an important factor and one that matters.

Isn't there a consensus that viral load on surfaces is comparatively low with respect to aerosolized particles though? That said, I actually hope cleaning protocols in retail businesses continue to be a thing after covid is either gone or rendered as commonplace as flus/colds. There's other considerations for keeping high touch surfaces clean. For instance, prior to the current mess, we had that huge hep-A outbreak here in San Diego. I'm all for keeping stuff clean in businesses as long as it's not impractical to implement.

[looker009]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Isn't there a consensus that viral load on surfaces is comparatively low with respect to aerosolized particles though? That said, I actually hope cleaning protocols in retail businesses continue to be a thing after covid is either gone or rendered as commonplace as flus/colds. There's other considerations for keeping high touch surfaces clean. For instance, prior to the current mess, we had that huge hep-A outbreak here in San Diego. I'm all for keeping stuff clean in businesses as long as it's not impractical to implement.

Business will cut cost as fast as they possible can without it costing them profit.

[citizensadvocate]

Originally Posted by looker009

Business will cut cost as fast as they possible can without it costing them profit.

Same reason they stopped comping bags as soon as they received the message supposingly from CDC that contact is unlikely to spread COVID. If CDC's stance didn't change I am sure that reusable bags would still be banned in most stores and juristications and bags continue to be comped. Comping bags costs them extra overhead if they cannot go back to the thin bags that used to use thus they want to go back to charging as quickly as possible. They lobbied for the charge back in 2014 to get a level playing field without fear of competition while reeling in every penny from the fee.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by joosoon

Isn't there a consensus that viral load on surfaces is comparatively low with respect to aerosolized particles though? That said, I actually hope cleaning protocols in retail businesses continue to be a thing after covid is either gone or rendered as commonplace as flus/colds. There's other considerations for keeping high touch surfaces clean. For instance, prior to the current mess, we had that huge hep-A outbreak here in San Diego. I'm all for keeping stuff clean in businesses as long as it's not impractical to implement.

Yes its lower by how much I do not know. Still seems to pose a risk.

Eh you can over clean/disinfect too much that could lead to superbugs too.