Anybody but government workers voting for Prop 1A? (income, sales tax)

[VLWH]

Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly

Yeah man, schools will close, fires will burn unchecked, cops will all be fired, and, most significantly, there will be NO MORE state funded health care ... FOR ... the CHILDREN!!! /sarc

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by user_id

Every small business owner I know will often let cash payments fall directly in their pocket. Some will even offer discounts for cash payments.

And yes there is a huge black market in California, especially the big cities.

Discount for cash is a normal business practice... even Doctors and Dentists offer cash Discounts... billing and processing Credit Card payments eats into the bottom line.

Letting cash fall directly in their pockets sounds like unreported income... which is illegal... some of us like to sleep at night without the worry of someone knocking on the door.

I worked for a Floor Covering Contractor at one time and customers were always asking for a cash discount which was gladly given at 2%... some would become irate and my Boss would reply... you're not asking me to do something illegal are you?

He was an accountant by training and said he worked too hard to loose it all...

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Discount for cash is a normal business practice... even Doctors and Dentists offer cash Discounts... billing and processing Credit Card payments eats into the bottom line.

I'm not talking about people that accept credit cards. Its cash or check and they offer a pretty nice discount for cash. Obviously, they don't have to worry about the cash bouncing, but that is not the only reason they do it. They pocket the cash.

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Letting cash fall directly in their pockets sounds like unreported income... which is illegal... some of us like to sleep at night without the worry of someone knocking on the door.

Yes, its unreported income. But the IRS or the state will never find it. A large number of small businesses under report their income. There is not much the IRS or the state can do about it. Its near impossible for the IRS to figure out and even if they did it would not be worth the costs. I'm not talking about people pocketing hundreds of thousand. These are small businesses and pocket a smallish percentage of their income. I don't know anybody that tries to pocket more than say 10%.

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

He was an accountant by training and said he worked too hard to loose it all...

What are you going to loose? At worse they find it in an audit and you owe the taxes. But really, unless you are a complete idiot about it there the IRS will never find the income regardless.

Regardless, raising taxes encourages people to cheat on their taxes. One of the many reasons why raising taxes does not always raise tax revenue.

[Ultrarunner]

I agree... Taxes serve as a great deterrent and Subsidies create more of whatever is subsidized...

When you sign your tax return it is under penalty of perjury... people get prosecuted for tax evasion.

I guess if all that cash is kept in a cookie jar no one would know

Putting it in the bank or spending beyond your means would seem an easy way create a paper trail...

I read somewhere that many tax cheats are caught by someone turning them in... disgruntled employee, nasty divorce... etc.

There are enough things to worry about without adding to the list...

A few months ago I attended a 80th birthday party for a friend... at my table of 10 there were two brothers and their wives... the name sounded familiar... they owned a chain of grocery stores...

A few days after the party I commented to the host that those guys must be enjoying life now that they don't have the stores anymore. My host replied that they each did prison time for tax evasion and the stores were seized by the IRS... so yes, it does happen and it happened to people I've met...

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

When you sign your tax return it is under penalty of perjury... people get prosecuted for tax evasion.

I've never heard of anybody getting arrested even when it was rather obvious they were evading taxes so long as they paid up (with interest) when they got caught.

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I guess if all that cash is kept in a cookie jar no one would know

Or spend it on dinners out, the movies, etc. The IRS can't track this stuff.

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Putting it in the bank or spending beyond your means would seem an easy way create a paper trail...

Obviously at some point it will start to become obvious. The small business owners I know personal do it in such a way where it would be impossible to know.

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

A few days after the party I commented to the host that those guys must be enjoying life now that they don't have the stores anymore. My host replied that they each did prison time for tax evasion and the stores were seized by the IRS... so yes, it does happen and it happened to people I've met...

This is not the sort of "skimming off the top" tax evasion I'm talking about. The vast majority of people evade taxes to some degree in their lives.

Let me ask you, when you purchase things in another state on the internet do you pay the Use tax? If not, you're a tax evader.

Regardless, I'm not advocating tax evasion. I'm just saying that it happens on a rather large scale and there really is not much the IRS can do about it. Californians for whatever reason seem particularly inclined to do it! At least from my experience.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by user_id

I've never heard of anybody getting arrested even when it was rather obvious they were evading taxes so long as they paid up (with interest) when they got caught.


Or spend it on dinners out, the movies, etc. The IRS can't track this stuff.


Obviously at some point it will start to become obvious. The small business owners I know personal do it in such a way where it would be impossible to know.



This is not the sort of "skimming off the top" tax evasion I'm talking about. The vast majority of people evade taxes to some degree in their lives.

Let me ask you, when you purchase things in another state on the Internet do you pay the Use tax? If not, you're a tax evader.

Regardless, I'm not advocating tax evasion. I'm just saying that it happens on a rather large scale and there really is not much the IRS can do about it. Californians for whatever reason seem particularly inclined to do it! At least from my experience.

I apologize for being way off topic...

As far as Prop 1a... the only people I know actively supporting it are city employees elected local elected officials and the school district.

I seldom buy on the Internet... very seldom and then when I do buy from Amazon I think the tax is already included

You got me thinking because I have bought things on Amazon as birthday and Christmas gifts and had them sent directly out of State of to friends Stationed Overseas... I think I was still charged tax even though the merchandise never entered CA.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

I seldom buy on the Internet... very seldom and then when I do buy from Amazon I think the tax is already included

Amazon has no operations in California, so California residents pay no sales tax (assuming you are buying from Amazon and not another merchant). Tax evader!

Anyhow, I don't think the tax evasion issue is entirely unrelated to Prop 1A. Even though the increase in income tax is relatively small, it can give people a justification to themselves to try to wiggle out of some taxes.

[SOON2BNSURPRISE]

Originally Posted by VLWH

You are correct, except 1A does include several tax increases:

I stand corrected. Forgot about that. Got lost in the confusion of all the other prop's. The only thing I know for sure is how to spell NO. I just never understood 2 things. Why a state would want to raise taxes in hard times, or see the need to raise them at all. and second why they can't cut services, people, or what ever when the rest of us have to. My employer, a hospital, is having us work one less day a month in order to cut expenses. Because of the economy less people have the funds to visit a hospital. Companies have laid off people, and those people don't have insurance any more. That has a ripple effect in my industry and many other industries. I don't believe in government run health care or making sure everyone is insured. I don't see why the few should have to care for the many. What I do believe in is making cuts so that the government can survive. If this is a Union problem within state employees, then it is time to cut the union lose. What we need is a Proposition that eliminates a union for state employees. Why are they a protected class of workers? It is time to have layoffs.

More ramblings and ideas on how the state can get out of this mess.

[roosevelt]

Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE

I stand corrected. Forgot about that. Got lost in the confusion of all the other prop's. The only thing I know for sure is how to spell NO. I just never understood 2 things. Why a state would want to raise taxes in hard times, or see the need to raise them at all. and second why they can't cut services, people, or what ever when the rest of us have to. My employer, a hospital, is having us work one less day a month in order to cut expenses. Because of the economy less people have the funds to visit a hospital. Companies have laid off people, and those people don't have insurance any more. That has a ripple effect in my industry and many other industries. I don't believe in government run health care or making sure everyone is insured. I don't see why the few should have to care for the many. What I do believe in is making cuts so that the government can survive. If this is a Union problem within state employees, then it is time to cut the union lose. What we need is a Proposition that eliminates a union for state employees. Why are they a protected class of workers? It is time to have layoffs.

More ramblings and ideas on how the state can get out of this mess.

Didn't some loony politicians a few years ago propose that teachers be exempt from paying income tax? Definitely favoritism.

[steel7]

The ca legislature & gov.Benedict Arnold are all fools & liars. The people of ca have spoken. It costs the ca tax payers 13.1 billion dollars to take care of the illegal alians (health care & school). Unbelievable !