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And yes weather plays a big factor where only the busiest of downtown streets will still have alot of people walking around in the winter and even then its because mostly because they're forced to rather than them wanting to spend time outdoors like they do during the summer. .
Why would those people be *forced* to walk down Yonge and Ste-Catherine in cold weather when the cities are filled with indoor malls and there is a whole other city underground?
Why would those people be *forced* to walk down Yonge and Ste-Catherine in cold weather when the cities are filled with indoor malls and there is a whole other city underground?
Exactly. The PATH in Toronto and the underground city in Montreal, have everything a person could possibly want, without having to go outside.
I'd say it has ALOT to do with the weather and how much density there is and how cities are designed that make a big difference. I love Toronto and yet I feel like this place is dreary and depressing during the winter time where even though there are a decent amount of events going on, its still a crappy place to be for 6-7 months of the year thanks to cold, snowy and generally crappy weather. On the otherhand the summers in Toronto are awesome and there's plenty to do and see and its great living here.
And also with regards to density and city design, I'd say it helps a ton to create a better city/nightlife when you have high density versus the relatively low density of most Canadian cities and how spread out people are. I just said Toronto is pretty great in the summer, but it could be even better if it had higher density like many European and asian cities. For example I've been watching a live streamer living in Taipei, Taiwan and the city/nightlife there is AMAZING thanks in large part in how the density there is over two times higher than it is in Toronto. There are many large districts there that are full of shops and restaurants and its very pedestrian friendly compared to Toronto where even in the downtown core there's only a few specific areas that have any decent amount of shops and restaurants clustered together to form a nice area to visit and even then, many of those areas are split up by roads and having cars running through them.
I'm thinking about places like the night market in the Distillery district that just opened up that are pedestrian only which is nice, but relatively small and then I see the ones in Taipei that are much larger and are probably dozens of them dotted around the city there. That has to do with density and it has to do with city design and it also has a TON to do with the weather. Taipei couldn't have those kinds of markets year round if it didn't have warm weather all the time and conversely if Toronto had LA type weather year round it would be an even more amazing city to live in.
PS: I wonder if the thread starter ever moved or they just stayed in Montreal after all?
The closest thing to a highly dense city like in Europe in Canada (and even North America) is Montreal, and even that lacks in comparison to cities in Europe of the same size and even smaller sized cities. It's just the culture of North America and how it's designed. I got used to this even though I do prefer cities where everyone is out at night. The positive side is that there is a lot more space and to me that's a good trade off because I don't like crowded areas even if it sacrifices night life. I think Montreal has a pretty good balance of night life and people walking on the streets at night without being too crowded. Cities with 1 million people don't have this but I don't mind it that much.
Why would those people be *forced* to walk down Yonge and Ste-Catherine in cold weather when the cities are filled with indoor malls and there is a whole other city underground?
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Originally Posted by Natnasci
Exactly. The PATH in Toronto and the underground city in Montreal, have everything a person could possibly want, without having to go outside.
People go out, mostly because they want to.
Unless the PATH system has vastly improved since I've been down there a number of years ago, its not exactly huge and its not really a place that people would want to spend time shopping or hanging out there because there's really not much to see and do there. Compare the underground malls in South Korea or elsewhere in asia and the difference is night and day.
That's why malls are still very important in Canada because in the winter that's where you can find refuge from the cold and shop, eat and hang out at. The bottom line is that the weather greatly affects the activities people do and where they can go which is why the winter culture in Toronto is vastly different from the summer culture and its why I say Toronto would be even better if it had summer weather year round.
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Originally Posted by GM10
The closest thing to a highly dense city like in Europe in Canada (and even North America) is Montreal, and even that lacks in comparison to cities in Europe of the same size and even smaller sized cities. It's just the culture of North America and how it's designed. I got used to this even though I do prefer cities where everyone is out at night. The positive side is that there is a lot more space and to me that's a good trade off because I don't like crowded areas even if it sacrifices night life. I think Montreal has a pretty good balance of night life and people walking on the streets at night without being too crowded. Cities with 1 million people don't have this but I don't mind it that much.
Again the 'culture' of people is often greatly affected by location, infrastructure and weather. If you moved the entire population of Toronto to Greece and move the entire population of Greece to Toronto, all of a sudden Torontonians would adapt and live the same lifestyle as many Mediterranean people do now and all the Greeks would adapt and live the same lifestyle that Torontonians did especially when we're talking about winter because they have no choice but to do so.
Again the 'culture' of people is often greatly affected by location, infrastructure and weather. If you moved the entire population of Toronto to Greece and move the entire population of Greece to Toronto, all of a sudden Torontonians would adapt and live the same lifestyle as many Mediterranean people do now and all the Greeks would adapt and live the same lifestyle that Torontonians did especially when we're talking about winter because they have no choice but to do so.
No. As I argued before, it is more of a North American/suburban culture, rather than a cold culture.
The city of Atlanta or Houston hardly can rival the street vibrancy in Athens or Naples, despite being warm year round. Vancouver can't be compared with Lyon either, although with similar population and similar winter temperature. Toronto or Washington DC even in the best seasons is hardly as vibrant as European or Asian cities with half its population. They have this culture not because of unfavourable weather, but rather the lifestyle they choose to have.
I agree Toronto's Path is pretty boring. I used it a lot in the winter to avoid the cold but it is not pleasant, not well connected and definitely not big enough. I usually walk past it rather than hang out in it (except in the more spacious Eaton Centre). Not sure about Montreal's. Hope it is better.
The city of Atlanta or Houston hardly can rival the street vibrancy in Athens or Naples, despite being warm year round. Vancouver can't be compared with Lyon either, although with similar population and similar winter temperature. Toronto or Washington DC even in the best seasons is hardly as vibrant as European or Asian cities with half its population. They have this culture not because of unfavourable weather, but rather the lifestyle they choose to have.
Certain aspect of culture, lifestyle and behavior are definitely affected by weather, just compare the cold cities of Northamerica to the warm ones....Seattle ain't San Diego and Toronto ain't Miami....
No. As I argued before, it is more of a North American/suburban culture, rather than a cold culture.
The city of Atlanta or Houston hardly can rival the street vibrancy in Athens or Naples, despite being warm year round. Vancouver can't be compared with Lyon either, although with similar population and similar winter temperature. Toronto or Washington DC even in the best seasons is hardly as vibrant as European or Asian cities with half its population. They have this culture not because of unfavourable weather, but rather the lifestyle they choose to have.
Disagree. All you have to do is look at how the people of Toronto behave during the summer vs how they behave during the winter and there's no comparison. During the summer people are always out and about and you see tons of people utilizing all of Toronto's green spaces especially when its near the water. Just visit the west or east beaches, or the waterfront area during the summer and see how many people are there even late at night. Then look at how many people are out and enjoying the bars/restaurants/nightclubs etc downtown. Then look at how many outdoor festivals and events there are during the summer.
And this is despite the fact that Toronto doesn't have nearly the density and built up infrastructure that many european and asian cities do. You can clearly see this when in the suburbs of Toronto except for small pockets where there's something interesting to do or see, its mostly quiet compared to downtown Toronto where there's plenty to do and see and its why the core is alive during the summer.
So again when density, infrastructure and especially weather are good, then that 'culture' you speak of will grow and exist naturally, while in the absence of those things then that 'culture' won't grow and exist. Again put the people of Toronto into one of those asian or european cities and they will behave the same as those people while if you placed asian or european people from those places into Toronto they'll behave like we do because that's what things like the weather dictates.
Disagree. All you have to do is look at how the people of Toronto behave during the summer vs how they behave during the winter and there's no comparison. During the summer people are always out and about and you see tons of people utilizing all of Toronto's green spaces especially when its near the water. Just visit the west or east beaches, or the waterfront area during the summer and see how many people are there even late at night. Then look at how many people are out and enjoying the bars/restaurants/nightclubs etc downtown. Then look at how many outdoor festivals and events there are during the summer.
And this is despite the fact that Toronto doesn't have nearly the density and built up infrastructure that many european and asian cities do. You can clearly see this when in the suburbs of Toronto except for small pockets where there's something interesting to do or see, its mostly quiet compared to downtown Toronto where there's plenty to do and see and its why the core is alive during the summer.
So again when density, infrastructure and especially weather are good, then that 'culture' you speak of will grow and exist naturally, while in the absence of those things then that 'culture' won't grow and exist. Again put the people of Toronto into one of those asian or european cities and they will behave the same as those people while if you placed asian or european people from those places into Toronto they'll behave like we do because that's what things like the weather dictates.
Not sure if you have been to Asian/European cities in the winter - In Jan 2015, I was in Amsterdam. It was 9pm, very chilly at about zero degrees. People were out about. They were not inside the restaurants and bars, they were even sitting or standing outside. You don't see that when it is zero degrees in Toronto, which is a much larger city.
The conclusion is, Canadians simply love their large super-sized suburban homes too much to leave it frequently. Yes, they sometimes come downtown but even during the most pleasant season, it doesn't feel like a city of 6M, and the busy areas are rather limited.
I was attending Nuit Blanche 2 years ago, and the streets were full of people. At that moment I was talking to myself: oh, look at the suburban people, they do exist! A city of this size should feel like this everyday, not just when there is a once-a-year event.
Not sure if you have been to Asian/European cities in the winter - In Jan 2015, I was in Amsterdam. It was 9pm, very chilly at about zero degrees. People were out about. They were not inside the restaurants and bars, they were even sitting or standing outside. You don't see that when it is zero degrees in Toronto, which is a much larger city.
Current weather in Toronto -19C feels like -26 with wind chill for at least another week. Yeah THIS IS WHY weather has such a huge impact as to the behavior of people. There are still some brave souls who will go out and try and enjoy the outdoors regardless of the weather, but for most people this kind of weather is simply too much and they'll only go out when they absolutely have to and for as little as they possibly can before going back inside.
You can't possibly say that weather doesn't affect people's behavior in a major way when just a week or two ago when it was warmer you saw plenty of people skating and doing other outdoor stuff around downtown because it was possible to do so. It's obviously nowhere near as busy as during the summer, but there is still some decent activity when the weather allows for it.
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The conclusion is, Canadians simply love their large super-sized suburban homes too much to leave it frequently. Yes, they sometimes come downtown but even during the most pleasant season, it doesn't feel like a city of 6M, and the busy areas are rather limited.
I was attending Nuit Blanche 2 years ago, and the streets were full of people. At that moment I was talking to myself: oh, look at the suburban people, they do exist! A city of this size should feel like this everyday, not just when there is a once-a-year event.
Again this all goes back to density and distance. Toronto and the GTA may have 6 million or more people living here, but they're so far spread out that each area is fairly self-contained and often people don't go too far out of their areas if they don't need to especially during bad weather. And really there's no reason for people to travel downtown these days when you have the same things in the suburbs that are much closer to you.
Sure people from the suburbs might go downtown once in a while to hang out and do things or go for special events, but for most of the time there really isn't a reason to do that especially since its often an inconvenience to do so on a daily basis. If you drive down there there certainly isn't enough parking and you usually have to deal with traffic and if you take transit it can often take a very long time, so really what's the reason to go regularly?
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