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There are a few states with equal or higher passport ownership than Canada overall (Mass, Alaska, Cali, NY, Delaware) Then quite a few not far behind. There is definitely a divide within the country based on a few factors, mostly socioeconomic in nature.
It is strange to me that this always turns into a penis measuring contest though. I work for a company that has operations in over 40 countries and have been sent to a pretty big chunk of them, have 6 weeks of vacation that I use liberally for overseas travel, and have lived in 5 countries, but still know some folks where I live in Boston that make my travel resume look like utter sh*t. I guess they must view me as unsophisticated because I lost the travel contest.
Now I agree that I relate more to people who also share a passion for International travel, but in no ways should we look down on folks that do not share the same interests.
Location: Where Sunday shopping is banned in the USA
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It feels like much more Canadians visit the U.S. than vise versa which I think is a shame especially those Americans who live within maximum 10 hours of drive. I never heard of any Canadians who never been to the U.S. at least once and on regular basis while I only know few Americans who been to Canada despite living only 5 hours from the border. Americans in general do not travel that much at all. Indeed, many do not even leave their states and those nearby.
I lived in America for 8 years and have been to Canada twice, now my third time soon next month none of my friends, co-workers have been there LOL! They are crazy. Indeed, my cousins live 4 hours drive from QC border and never been to Canada despite living in the area for 25 years.
Many wealthy Canadians would then move to the US for lower taxes, cheaper housing and warmer weather while many low income and poor Americans would move to Canada for their national healthcare and social welfare. More Americans would benefit from opening border than Canadians actually. If I could live in Canada I may have most likely moved even though I'm middle class... Canada took the best of Europe and America and they have Quebec which I love
I'm not sure why a lot of Canadians on the forum get the impression that having an EU type relationship with the US means that there'll be a ton of poor, trigger happyy, welfare driven Americans moving to Canada. I believe that in the EU you still have to be a permanent resident of the actual country to get all its benefits. Plus I can't picture a lot of "lower" class Americans saying, "There's an open border now honey, let's move to Canada so we can take advantage of the free health care." Also as I've pointed out before your businesses have no problem accepting tons of foreign workers from less developed countries right now, even at the cost of displacing your own citizens, so even in this worst case scenario that you imagine, it won't be that much different than the way things are now(swapping one nationality for another).
However here are some CLEAR benefits to Canadian for an open border:
1) easier access to cheaper American goods across the border (no more waiting at the border)
2) ability to move and live in "hip" locations (NYC, California, Florida, etc.)
3) access to a much bigger job market for college graduates (Silicon Valley, NYC, Chicago, etc.)
As for the super rich moving to USA to take advantage of the lower taxes, they can do that now by accessing US citizenship through investment methods and what not, so I don't see that changing much.
Location: Where Sunday shopping is banned in the USA
334 posts, read 438,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvinerenter
I'm not sure why a lot of Canadians on the forum get the impression that having an EU type relationship with the US means that there'll be a ton of poor, trigger happyy, welfare driven Americans moving to Canada. I believe that in the EU you still have to be a permanent resident of the actual country to get all its benefits. Plus I can't picture a lot of "lower" class Americans saying, "There's an open border now honey, let's move to Canada so we can take advantage of the free health care." Also as I've pointed out before your businesses have no problem accepting tons of foreign workers from less developed countries right now, even at the cost of displacing your own citizens, so even in this worst case scenario that you imagine, it won't be that much different than the way things are now(swapping one nationality for another).
However here are some CLEAR benefits to Canadian for an open border:
1) easier access to cheaper American goods across the border (no more waiting at the border)
2) ability to move and live in "hip" locations (NYC, California, Florida, etc.)
3) access to a much bigger job market for college graduates (Silicon Valley, NYC, Chicago, etc.)
As for the super rich moving to USA to take advantage of the lower taxes, they can do that now by accessing US citizenship through investment methods and what not, so I don't see that changing much.
EU and its system (government, taxes, welfare, etc.) have much more in common with each other than the U.S. and Canada does despite how much the U.S. and Canada look and feel like each other almost.
Since the USA and Canada (except Quebec) is English speaking; Canada would lose its population actually which will make it bad for the country's economy, etc. In EU you have tons of different languages and culture; therefore, by far less people would move to another country than what Americans and Canadians would do to each other. In North America it is more common to move around the nation and live in many different parts than what Europeans would do who typically live and die in even same city.
Canada would also have problem with now illegal Latinos, gun problems, etc. etc.
…back up a little. The point about passport ownership DOES show you which country's citizens are better travelled because BEFORE Canadians needed a passport to enter the US Canadians having a passport was much higher. Canadians didn't need a passport, except in the last few years, to go to their holiday south of the border.
Now that passports are needed that percentage is of course higher than before, but the percentage of Canadians using their passports for travel to other points other than the U.S. is still higher, percentage wise than Americans having passports.
Still 13 years after 9/11 33 percent of Americans have passports, up significantly before 9/11. Canada has 65 percent of it's citizens having passports.
As we both agree travelling is also about educational experiences and someone travelling to their 2nd home in Florida is not getting an educational experience in the sense I think we both mean. So going on about how Americans travel within their own country in relations to travelling for a truly foreign experience makes no sense to me if you are arguing..
"Canadians so often use comparative rates of passport ownership as yet another criterion to confirm that they're more sophisticated than Americans."
If by sophistication you mean a month in Bali rather than Orlando.
Yes, passport ownership is higher in Canada than in the US. As a Canadian, I've always known that. And, of course, I do not consider domestic travel the same as travelling for a foreign experience.
I made two separate points in my first 2 posts:
1) that many Canadians often use those higher rates of passport ownership as a way to somehow prove that they're more sophisticated than Americans (ie world travellers), when MOST travel that Canadians do is to the US. That is a fact.
I never said that there are NO Canadians who travel abroad (why on earth would I say that?), but that MOST do not. There may very well be more Canadians than Americans who do; I haven't taken the time to research it, though I'm sure you or someone else on this thread will, and will tell me your findings (Canadians always take the time to arm themselves with stats to compare themselves favorably to Americans).
2) that, though fewer Americans own passports, Americans are better travelled within the US than Canadians are within Canada. That is not insignificant. I think choosing to travel one's own country, particularly countries as large and diverse as the US and Canada, is wise, and can be highly educational. There might be some Canadians who choose to travel within Canada and to expose their kids to what Canada has to offer, but they are a minority.
If you and a couple of other posters on here have travelled a lot within Canada, I'm sure you realize that, compared to you, most Canadians haven't.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 04-27-2014 at 06:03 PM..
I'm not sure why a lot of Canadians on the forum get the impression that having an EU type relationship with the US means that there'll be a ton of poor, trigger happyy, welfare driven Americans moving to Canada. I believe that in the EU you still have to be a permanent resident of the actual country to get all its benefits. Plus I can't picture a lot of "lower" class Americans saying, "There's an open border now honey, let's move to Canada so we can take advantage of the free health care." Also as I've pointed out before your businesses have no problem accepting tons of foreign workers from less developed countries right now, even at the cost of displacing your own citizens, so even in this worst case scenario that you imagine, it won't be that much different than the way things are now(swapping one nationality for another).
However here are some CLEAR benefits to Canadian for an open border:
1) easier access to cheaper American goods across the border (no more waiting at the border)
2) ability to move and live in "hip" locations (NYC, California, Florida, etc.)
3) access to a much bigger job market for college graduates (Silicon Valley, NYC, Chicago, etc.)
As for the super rich moving to USA to take advantage of the lower taxes, they can do that now by accessing US citizenship through investment methods and what not, so I don't see that changing much.
I'm not following. What's so special about living in a 'hip' location? It costs a lot more.
I lived in California. I didn't find it very hip. I also spent a great deal of time in NYC because I was engaged to a fella there. It has nothing that Montreal doesnt have, except for ghettoes and the Museum of Natural History. I love that place.
However, here is better.
I'm not following. What's so special about living in a 'hip' location? It costs a lot more.
I lived in California. I didn't find it very hip. I also spent a great deal of time in NYC because I was engaged to a fella there. It has nothing that Montreal doesnt have, except for ghettoes and the Museum of Natural History. I love that place.
However, here is better.
I'm just saying that there are certain locations that a lot of people would like to try out. In the US it might be locations like NYC or California. In Canada it might be locations like Vancouver or Montreal. Not saying that they work for everyone but it does give its citizens the option.
The OP is suggesting that it not work the way it does now. Americans could move to Canada and get housing assistance, health care, subsidsed education, the dole, all without any controls. The people who'd move would be overwhelmingly those who need/draw on such services. With the way it is now people looking to enter and become part of the system are vetted carefully and quotas applied to those who'll become drains on the system (refugees, for example).
I understood what the OP meant. And I was explaining that even if there were no controls, Americans moving to Canada would not qualify for any of those things. Americans would not even qualify for refugee status because there is no such thing as refugees between Canada and America. They would qualify for no benefits of any kind unless they became Canadian citizens and non-citizens who are overwhelmingly in need of such services as you listed above would not qualify to become Canadian citizens, they wouldn't even be allowed in the country. It is extremely difficult for Canadian citizen who qualify for social services to actually get social services. Why would it be made easy for non-citizens when it is difficult for citizens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildColonialGirl
Out of interest, what assistance could a forty year old unemployed childless person with over $2000 in assests receive in BC? Because in at least several US states they get $0.
Such a person in BC would get $0. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. They would not qualify for any financial assistance but if they were starving and homeless they might be directed to a temporary homeless shelter for overnight only. As a Canadian citizen the only assistance they would be eligible for is basic medical assistance. If they are not a Canadian citizen they would be deported back to their own country.
I live and grew up in New York State - right outside NYC. About half the people I know have been to Canada. It is true, that Americans don't leave the country much - in general. Althought I live in a border state with Canada, It is a 5 hour drive to Montreal and almost 6 to Toronto from me. Which is not really a long drive,no. However, if you look to see where else I can drive in 5 hours, it might explain why at least,New Yorkers, stay in the states
Boston 3 hours
Washington D.C. 5 hours
Pocono Mountains 1 hour
catskills Mountains 2 hours
baltimore 3 and half hours
Atlantic City 2 hours
Philadephia 2 hours
Maine 4 hours
Newport Rhode Island 3 hours
Jersey Shore and all the boardwalks and fun things to do there 2 hours.
Vermont 3 hours (skiing,snowboarding)
Countless professional Baseball, football, basketball, soccer, and hockey teams within that drive
i could go on and on. This is just an example of other day/weekend trips that keep ppl in this part of the country entertained.
Location: Where Sunday shopping is banned in the USA
334 posts, read 438,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayJay1980
I live and grew up in New York State - right outside NYC. About half the people I know have been to Canada. It is true, that Americans don't leave the country much - in general. Althought I live in a border state with Canada, It is a 5 hour drive to Montreal and almost 6 to Toronto from me. Which is not really a long drive,no. However, if you look to see where else I can drive in 5 hours, it might explain why at least,New Yorkers, stay in the states
Boston 3 hours
Washington D.C. 5 hours
Pocono Mountains 1 hour
catskills Mountains 2 hours
baltimore 3 and half hours
Atlantic City 2 hours
Philadephia 2 hours
Maine 4 hours
Newport Rhode Island 3 hours
Jersey Shore and all the boardwalks and fun things to do there 2 hours.
Vermont 3 hours (skiing,snowboarding)
Countless professional Baseball, football, basketball, soccer, and hockey teams within that drive
i could go on and on. This is just an example of other day/weekend trips that keep ppl in this part of the country entertained.
Sorry but as an American living in NNJ there is NO way any of those places mentioned above is as great, beautiful and simply more interesting or unique as Montreal, Toronto or Quebec City.
Sure, they are great trips but they should rather cross the border first than seeing any of those places
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none of my friends, co-workers have been there LOL! They are crazy. Indeed, my cousins live 4 hours drive from QC border and never been to Canada despite living in the area for 25 years.
