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Although, I am hoping that I will never need the information, I am checking on the Medicaid Five Year Look Back in case my husband needs to go into a nursing home in the future. From the websites I am getting "high-roller information" but nothing that would be practical for normal, regular people. They give examples like "Chloe gave her granddaughter $25,000 to pay for her wedding" or "Boswick sold a painting worth $50,000 to his son for $10,000" or "Penelope sold her house to her son for less than market value" or Johnathon gave his godchild a car worth $35,000" or "Derek gave each of his six children $10,000 in cash for Christmas" and things like that.
Where is the advice for regular people? What is the advice for regular, normal, middle class people?
As an example, last summer I gave my son $500 to help pay for airplane tickets for his family to visit us. Does that count in a "look back"? Would he have to repay that money? What if it had been $500 a year for several years?
Our adult daughter lives with us but does not pay rent. Does that count as money that she would have to pay back if they did a Medicaid "look back"? How would they calculate that? The fair market value of renting a room in a private home? She also had/has responsibilities in caring for my husband who is disabled (that is part of the reason that she moved home). Would that make a difference in the look back for not to pay rent?
What about other things that we have paid for our daughter, such as cell phone costs or car insurance or rent money when she ran short in college?
We took out some parent loans for our daughter's college education. As we pay the loans back do those count as money for her that needs to be reported?
They also said that money donated to a church/religious organization could also count. Are they talking about a few hundred dollars a year or only when someone makes a large donation? And what do they consider "large"?
While I did contact an elder care attorney to get all of our paperwork in order it never really occurred to me to ask her these type of questions. But, I want to make sure that I have not done anything in the past nor do anything in the future that is questioned by the Medicaid Five Year Look Back.
Although, I am hoping that I will never need the information, I am checking on the Medicaid Five Year Look Back in case my husband needs to go into a nursing home in the future. From the websites I am getting "high-roller information" but nothing that would be practical for normal, regular people. They give examples like "Chloe gave her granddaughter $25,000 to pay for her wedding" or "Boswick sold a painting worth $50,000 to his son for $10,000" or "Penelope sold her house to her son for less than market value" or Johnathon gave his godchild a car worth $35,000" or "Derek gave each of his six children $10,000 in cash for Christmas" and things like that.
Where is the advice for regular people? What is the advice for regular, normal, middle class people?
As an example, last summer I gave my son $500 to help pay for airplane tickets for his family to visit us. Does that count in a "look back"? Would he have to repay that money? What if it had been $500 a year for several years?
Our adult daughter lives with us but does not pay rent. Does that count as money that she would have to pay back if they did a Medicaid "look back"? How would they calculate that? The fair market value of renting a room in a private home? She also had/has responsibilities in caring for my husband who is disabled (that is part of the reason that she moved home). Would that make a difference in the look back for not to pay rent?
What about other things that we have paid for our daughter, such as cell phone costs or car insurance or rent money when she ran short in college?
We took out some parent loans for our daughter's college education. As we pay the loans back do those count as money for her that needs to be reported?
They also said that money donated to a church/religious organization could also count. Are they talking about a few hundred dollars a year or only when someone makes a large donation? And what do they consider "large"?
While I did contact an elder care attorney to get all of our paperwork in order it never really occurred to me to ask her these type of questions. But, I want to make sure that I have not done anything in the past nor do anything in the future that is questioned by the Medicaid Five Year Look Back.
Thanks.
No, to the bolded part.
The idea behind the 5 year look back to get a middle class person(and by that I mean a senior couple who own their home outright, and have some savings/investments).
Let's say the wife has to go into a NH due to Alzheimers. The husband(now depending on the state) is allowed to keep the home and a certain amount of savings, it used to be around $110K a few years back. The rest of it has to be spent down and you can't just give it away or sign property over to an adult child.
The idea is in the case of an elderly couple to leave the one with their home intact, a car, and some savings, but they can't have anymore than that if you go the Medicaid route.
I hope this makes sense. It's not so much about what you had and where you spent is as it is in order to qualify you can't have more(the spouse who doesn't need the long term care) than the govt./state guidelines allow them to have.
It's best to talk to an elder care attorney in your state that specializes in these matters. Sometimes, there are ways to structure your finances to maximize the amount kids can keep.
It's best to talk to an elder care attorney in your state that specializes in these matters. Sometimes, there are ways to structure your finances to maximize the amount kids can keep.
There is not any money for the kids to keep. I am just worried about them having to payback the $100 they received here, or $500 there, or free cell phone payments or free rent that they received "unfairly" (according to the government) that would keep my spouse from qualifying for Medicaid, at some point in the future.
The websites all refer to the kids paying back money (the $25,000 for the wedding, the extra $40,000 value of the painting, those $10,000 cash gifts to each child, etc.) that make their parent/parents ineligible for Medicaid. But, what about the normal, regular middle class parents who give their children "normal, regular" gifts?
In my state the impoverished spouse can have a house, a car and $50,000 in cash. So does Medicaid only care if the spouse/couple had OVER $50,000 to start with? And how would they know that unless they look back five years?
I'm just confused about what that means for "regular" people who maybe gave a $500 gift to a child or don't charge rent to an adult child? Free cell phones? Do they have to pay that back, too? Or only if the parent started out with over $50,000 at some point within the previous five years?
Last edited by germaine2626; 12-11-2015 at 08:18 PM..
Off the top of my head, I'd say there's probably some minimal level of gift giving for events like birthdays and Christmas that won't cause any problems. Of course, how would they ever know about a little cash here and there?
I just poked around a little bit on the Internet and, apparently, the law has no exceptions, even for small gifts. As a practical matter, though, I can't imagine that a person would have to account for every single penny spent over the five year look back period.
According to a Forbes article I just read, they will look at "any gift or transfer of assets" within the 5 year look back period. So that would probably negate the rent issue, but could include the other items. Medicaid rules can vary from state to state however. I know in my state they come after any and all assets that remain after both medicaid recipients are deceased, even if it is just an old junker car or a bank account of $10.00.
Actually - no - according to my conversations with the eldercare attorneys (and yes, you should of course consult your own)
You're not allowed to "live your life". Every dime for 5 years is scrutinized.
The good news is - no one has to pay anything back. What happens is they determine that over the last 5 years you "gave away" $3000 (or $20,000, or $100,000).
They then take that amount and determine how much time that would equate to in a facility. Average medicaid cost of facility (in your own state -- mine it's about $6,000 a month).
So - in the case of $3000 --- that's 1/2 month of facility time. So when your husband "qualifies" - you'd be responsible for the first 1/2 month (approximately $3000).
If it was $30000 that you had given away during the past 5 years --- then it would be 5 months ($6,000 x 5 = $30,000).
So basically medicaid recoups the money given away in that manner.
The college student loans - not sure how those would be affected as they are in YOUR name (you took them out for your child - that makes them YOUR debt). I don't think that would be looked at as a give away, but am not sure.
Your eldercare attorney will know this and should know exactly what will be counted against you and what will not.
You better get an attorney to guide you or do like my mom did, do nothing and when she needed help they will take the house, no problem but after they made her poor and she is home since she is middle class there is NO HELP for her. Get it passed with the agreement that who owns it is willing to borrow against it to provide money for your healthcare, otherwise you're dumping on your kids.
I'm $30 grand in and counting and by the time she's done with me I'll be living in tent city all because she wouldn't get her ducks in a row.
No...that teensy bit of money is not going to affect anything...you are still allowed to live your life, you know!
Yea, she might but who gets dumped on will not.
By the way, they want to KNOW about EVERYTHING.
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