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The idea that most who would want to do something like park broken down cars in front of their house being priced out of the market isn't sound. We have a wide range of people in our neighborhood. Some are very particular about their homes others will spend millions on deep water and then let mold grow all over the side of the house.. or not repaint or park RVs in their front yard for extended periods of time. This house will park the RV, that house won't paint, another runs a landscaping business and parks his trailer on the street while maintaining a pile of tree limbs perpetually for the town to pick up. Right now they get a warning and if it keeps up the get a rolling fine until it's corrected. I've gotten a warning for bringing my yard debris out to early on a major cleanup weekend. As long as I don't do it again in 3 months I'm fine. Shrug it off and move on. If I need to park my boat overnight.. send notice in and it's normally fine.
Some neighborhoods have pools that you're not required to "be a member of". Without the broad financial support of all the homeowners, the cost to join and run is typically very high and they often are forced to allow membership from outside the neighborhood.
An HOA is basically a group of people who live in a neighborhood that have agreed to a set of rules. These rules typically set an agreed upon baseline for maintenance of homes, acceptable behavior, and how any common areas are to be used and maintained. Some HOAs have very restrictive rules.. others are relatively lax. However, they are all filed with the county as they're considered legal contracts. When you purchase a house in one of these areas you must agree to the terms within the contract. The point of a HOA is to help ensure that the neighborhood is kept and maintained 10 years from now as when you bought into it. It's meant to protect the property value. Consider it a "level of assurance".
With that said, there's nothing that keeps neighborhoods without HOAs from using pure volunteerism to maintain common areas or that everyone just naturally keeps their homes maintained and acts in a "respectful" manner. Sometimes that works just fine. But, what you consider "respectful" may not be what I consider "respectful". You may feel the toilet you have in your front yard turned into a planter is whimsical and a wonderful artistic idea. I may think it belongs on the cover of Redneck Monthly. Then there's the whole Broken Window Theory concerning homeowners that choose not to maintain their homes. Without the HOA covenants, your "level of assurance" goes down.
Some are more risk tolerant and feel they don't want their neighbors having a say about the artistic view of that toilet bowl planter. Others are more risk adverse and are willing to let their neighbors have a say about what they can park in their yard if it means an old tub isn't used to as a planter for corn with a cute sign in front that reads "Garden Tub". Or, that their neighbor won't be allowed to build a bunch of chicken coops while raising goats in their back yard.
I would suggest not ruling out neighborhoods with HOAs (they tend to be more the norm for newer areas), but work with your realtor about researching the annual fees and what restrictions there are. If you find an area you like, take time to go knock on some doors and ask the current owners how the HOA is run and what their impressions are.
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I would suggest not ruling out neighborhoods with HOAs (they tend to be more the norm for newer areas), but work with your realtor about researching the annual fees and what restrictions there are. If you find an area you like, take time to go knock on some doors and ask the current owners how the HOA is run and what their impressions are.
That's it. There are great neighborhoods without HOAs and there are HOAs that aren't a bad thing. You're more likely to have "broken down cars" etc in a lower income neighborhood which is where you're also less likely to have an HOA but you can have a jerk neighbor at any income level.
Story: Years ago I had clients who's new neighbors built a very nice, large house on a harborfront lot here on James Island. Since the house took up the whole width of the lot, they chose to build their 3-car, 2-story garage/apt up close to the street and close to my client's property line. It pretty much ruined my client's curb appeal. Well there was an old HOA (from the 70's) that had restrictions on how close to the street a garage could be built and which disallowed this garage. The new neighbors ignored this and decided they were building it anyway and proceeded to put in the foundation. Fortunately for my clients, one of the members of the tiny HOA is a lawyer and he took them to court. The HOA wins and the unsightly, out-of-place garage/apt was stopped.
That's an example of an HOA working the way it's supposed to. It's also an example of the usefulness of an HOA for something other than junker cars on the lawn. These houses are in the 4-5mil range. Most of the residents there probably didn't remember that they had an HOA because it was normally non-intrusive on their lives.
So as Isnull (and others) have said here, don't rule out all HOAs, just look into them and decide which ones you're comfortable with and which ones not.
Great Feedback from everyone. I am an educated consumer now. Thank you. I have a story for you. My family and I have lived in the same house for 29 years now. It is a 950 square foot ranch and we pay over 6K in property taxes. I do not think I'll mind a small monthly HOA fee. Take Care everyone
The idea that most who would want to do something like park broken down cars in front of their house being priced out of the market isn't sound. We have a wide range of people in our neighborhood. Some are very particular about their homes others will spend millions on deep water and then let mold grow all over the side of the house.. or not repaint or park RVs in their front yard for extended periods of time. This house will park the RV, that house won't paint, another runs a landscaping business and parks his trailer on the street while maintaining a pile of tree limbs perpetually for the town to pick up. Right now they get a warning and if it keeps up the get a rolling fine until it's corrected. I've gotten a warning for bringing my yard debris out to early on a major cleanup weekend. As long as I don't do it again in 3 months I'm fine. Shrug it off and move on. If I need to park my boat overnight.. send notice in and it's normally fine.
Some neighborhoods have pools that you're not required to "be a member of". Without the broad financial support of all the homeowners, the cost to join and run is typically very high and they often are forced to allow membership from outside the neighborhood.
Well what's the matter with that?
If there aren't enough people to economically justify the pool then why have the pool?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsNull
An HOA is basically a group of people who live in a neighborhood that have agreed to a set of rules.
No. In virtually every case the HOA corporation is an entity that was established long before the homeowners ever got there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsNull
These rules typically set an agreed upon baseline for maintenance of homes, acceptable behavior, and how any common areas are to be used and maintained. Some HOAs have very restrictive rules.. others are relatively lax. However, they are all filed with the county as they're considered legal contracts.
They are filed with the county because they affect interests in real property not because they are "contracts".
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsNull
When you purchase a house in one of these areas you must agree to the terms within the contract. The point of a HOA is to help ensure that the neighborhood is kept and maintained 10 years from now as when you bought into it. It's meant to protect the property value. Consider it a "level of assurance".
You are reciting the marketing pitch used to mislead unsophisticated buyers. This was part of the pitch developed in the 1970s to convince people to purchase in these places. HOAs do not and never have protected value for the homeowner. HOAs definitely protect developers, local government, and HOA vendors - but not the non-board member homeowner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsNull
With that said, there's nothing that keeps neighborhoods without HOAs from using pure volunteerism to maintain common areas or that everyone just naturally keeps their homes maintained and acts in a "respectful" manner. Sometimes that works just fine. But, what you consider "respectful" may not be what I consider "respectful". You may feel the toilet you have in your front yard turned into a planter is whimsical and a wonderful artistic idea. I may think it belongs on the cover of Redneck Monthly. Then there's the whole Broken Window Theory concerning homeowners that choose not to maintain their homes. Without the HOA covenants, your "level of assurance" goes down.
Without addressing the substance of your examples, you can have restrictive covenants without an HOA - so this really isn't justification for an HOA corporation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsNull
Some are more risk tolerant and feel they don't want their neighbors having a say about the artistic view of that toilet bowl planter. Others are more risk adverse and are willing to let their neighbors have a say about what they can park in their yard if it means an old tub isn't used to as a planter for corn with a cute sign in front that reads "Garden Tub". Or, that their neighbor won't be allowed to build a bunch of chicken coops while raising goats in their back yard.
You don't need an HOA to enforce a restriction. HOA boards and vendors tend to "create" or "extend" existing restrictions to suit the personal agendas of the board members or the pockets of the vendors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsNull
I would suggest not ruling out neighborhoods with HOAs (they tend to be more the norm for newer areas), but work with your realtor about researching the annual fees and what restrictions there are. If you find an area you like, take time to go knock on some doors and ask the current owners how the HOA is run and what their impressions are.
There may not be a feasible choice anyway. But if a choice exists avoid the HOA like the plague.
Well what's the matter with that?
If there aren't enough people to economically justify the pool then why have the pool?
No. In virtually every case the HOA corporation is an entity that was established long before the homeowners ever got there.
They are filed with the county because they affect interests in real property not because they are "contracts".
You are reciting the marketing pitch used to mislead unsophisticated buyers. This was part of the pitch developed in the 1970s to convince people to purchase in these places. HOAs do not and never have protected value for the homeowner. HOAs definitely protect developers, local government, and HOA vendors - but not the non-board member homeowner.
Without addressing the substance of your examples, you can have restrictive covenants without an HOA - so this really isn't justification for an HOA corporation.
You don't need an HOA to enforce a restriction. HOA boards and vendors tend to "create" or "extend" existing restrictions to suit the personal agendas of the board members or the pockets of the vendors.
There may not be a feasible choice anyway. But if a choice exists avoid the HOA like the plague.
A lot of misunderstanding HOA's with your entire post. The HOA belongs to the home owners once the neighborhood is finished. The developer who developed your neighborhood 10 years ago could care less if you're maintaining it or not.
You might have a problem with a contracted HOA management agency, but that agency is at the mercy of the HOA board which is elected by the home owners.
Any rules that scare off trashy neighbors is most definitely protecting the home owner.
What exactly is an HOA vendor? Your neighborhood is either set up with an HOA originally through the developer that home owners then take over after the build out is complete, or you just have a house built in some random plot of land somewhere. There's no door to door HOA salesmen that I've ever heard of.
Well what's the matter with that?
If there aren't enough people to economically justify the pool then why have the pool?
That depends on your opinion of increased traffic and people from outside the neighborhood entering and using the pool. In sort, they became more community pools rather than neighborhood pools. Some may care. Some might not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
No. In virtually every case the HOA corporation is an entity that was established long before the homeowners ever got there.
Yes, and in every case each homeowner that purchased in the neighborhood chose to do so with the HOA in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
They are filed with the county because they affect interests in real property not because they are "contracts".
Ok, I'll possibly give you that. However small claims court seems to view them as a contract as far as enforcement is concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
You are reciting the marketing pitch used to mislead unsophisticated buyers. This was part of the pitch developed in the 1970s to convince people to purchase in these places. HOAs do not and never have protected value for the homeowner. HOAs definitely protect developers, local government, and HOA vendors - but not the non-board member homeowner.
You're certainly welcome to your opinion, and there are a fair number of people who would probably agree with you. However, there is an easily an equal if not more number of those who would disagree with you. Plenty of research on both sides. But over the years owners have the ability to dissolve the HOA... and choose not to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
Without addressing the substance of your examples, you can have restrictive covenants without an HOA - so this really isn't justification for an HOA corporation.
The HOA gives the owners a voice and a method for self management while providing methods to change the covenants should they desire. It establishes a Board typically elected by the owners to ensure common property owned by the Association is maintained. Typically this gives them the power of an entity to establish checking accounts to collect fees to pay maintenance. So yes, you can have covenants without an HOA, but to what extent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
You don't need an HOA to enforce a restriction. HOA boards and vendors tend to "create" or "extend" existing restrictions to suit the personal agendas of the board members or the pockets of the vendors.
I've never lived in a neighborhood with an HOA where anyone was lining their pockets or creating restrictions to suit the personal agendas of board members. I'm sure that happens, but I don't believe it's the norm. Most boards struggle to get enough people to run and only a fraction of homeowners even show up for annual meetings. People tend to want to complain.. but aren't willing to volunteer to serve. We've actually reformed and relaxed many of our covenants in the last two years. I'm sure if people begin to take advantage of the trust then the home owners will support reversing course a little. That's the good thing about an HOA.. the owners decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight
There may not be a feasible choice anyway. But if a choice exists avoid the HOA like the plague.
Certainly the buyer's choice. But I feel your advice comes across as a touch bitter.
The idea that most who would want to do something like park broken down cars in front of their house being priced out of the market isn't sound. We have a wide range of people in our neighborhood. Some are very particular about their homes others will spend millions on deep water and then let mold grow all over the side of the house.. or not repaint or park RVs in their front yard for extended periods of time. This house will park the RV, that house won't paint, another runs a landscaping business and parks his trailer on the street while maintaining a pile of tree limbs perpetually for the town to pick up. Right now they get a warning and if it keeps up the get a rolling fine until it's corrected. I've gotten a warning for bringing my yard debris out to early on a major cleanup weekend. As long as I don't do it again in 3 months I'm fine. Shrug it off and move on. If I need to park my boat overnight.. send notice in and it's normally fine.
Some neighborhoods have pools that you're not required to "be a member of". Without the broad financial support of all the homeowners, the cost to join and run is typically very high and they often are forced to allow membership from outside the neighborhood.
An HOA is basically a group of people who live in a neighborhood that have agreed to a set of rules. These rules typically set an agreed upon baseline for maintenance of homes, acceptable behavior, and how any common areas are to be used and maintained. Some HOAs have very restrictive rules.. others are relatively lax. However, they are all filed with the county as they're considered legal contracts. When you purchase a house in one of these areas you must agree to the terms within the contract. The point of a HOA is to help ensure that the neighborhood is kept and maintained 10 years from now as when you bought into it. It's meant to protect the property value. Consider it a "level of assurance".
With that said, there's nothing that keeps neighborhoods without HOAs from using pure volunteerism to maintain common areas or that everyone just naturally keeps their homes maintained and acts in a "respectful" manner. Sometimes that works just fine. But, what you consider "respectful" may not be what I consider "respectful". You may feel the toilet you have in your front yard turned into a planter is whimsical and a wonderful artistic idea. I may think it belongs on the cover of Redneck Monthly. Then there's the whole Broken Window Theory concerning homeowners that choose not to maintain their homes. Without the HOA covenants, your "level of assurance" goes down.
Some are more risk tolerant and feel they don't want their neighbors having a say about the artistic view of that toilet bowl planter. Others are more risk adverse and are willing to let their neighbors have a say about what they can park in their yard if it means an old tub isn't used to as a planter for corn with a cute sign in front that reads "Garden Tub". Or, that their neighbor won't be allowed to build a bunch of chicken coops while raising goats in their back yard.
I would suggest not ruling out neighborhoods with HOAs (they tend to be more the norm for newer areas), but work with your realtor about researching the annual fees and what restrictions there are. If you find an area you like, take time to go knock on some doors and ask the current owners how the HOA is run and what their impressions are.
More of the 'if you don't have an HOA you'll have RVs on cinderblocks and bathtubs as landscaping' myth. Keep on believing it I guess, the truth is far from it.
And people from Parkshore and another neighborhood on Orange Grove are eligible to join the Northbridge Pool. The horror!
More of the 'if you don't have an HOA you'll have RVs on cinderblocks and bathtubs as landscaping' myth. Keep on believing it I guess, the truth is far from it.
And people from Parkshore and another neighborhood on Orange Grove are eligible to join the Northbridge Pool. The horror!
That's not what I said. The examples that I used were issues that were kept from occurring in a neighborhood that had an HOA. I stated that an HOA with some level of restrictive covenants can keep those thing from occurring should a homeowner decide to do so. It's a level of assurance. There's nothing that says a neighborhood can't exist without a HOA, restrictive covenants, and no one willing to do these types of things. The question is what are you willing to live with? Are you willing to live beside a neighbor that might do these things? What are the chances? Roll the dice or go with insurance.. up to you. If you look at the covenants and are ok with them.. why not go with the insurance?
More of the 'if you don't have an HOA you'll have RVs on cinderblocks and bathtubs as landscaping' myth. Keep on believing it I guess, the truth is far from it.
Concur. Another non-HOA neighborhood - the Old Village. Not a lot of RVs on cinderblocks there either.
We're moving and have seen some very nice country 'neighborhoods'. They are neighborhoods only in the strictest sense with no HOA, just a few deed restrictions (mainly no trailers and minimum house sizes). Imagine my surprise when none of them had RVs on cinderblocks, no cars in the front yard, nothing! They were just all very nice, well kept homes. Price point has a TON to do with how nice a neighborhood is or not. HOA is completely secondary to that.
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